Sunday, November 30, 2003, 11:07 GMT
Re: "True no accent is inherently 'ugly' or 'beautiful' as you put it. But one is for certain, those accents do come across a bit on the uneducated side as they seem to mumble a lot and therefore look down upon as it happens for every language on this earth. For me RP does not sound snobbish but I do think it is clear and precise as their speakers make a concious effort to properly pronounce their words which is the reason why I like it."
Firstly, I think you are confusing pronunciation with enunciation. It is possible for a person with a regional accent to enunciate words clearly and communicate effectively. It is equally possible for a person with an RP accent to mumble words in an incoherent fashion. For example, I have heard many clear Birmingham speakers (Cat Deeley, Nigel Mansell) and a number of unclear Birmingham speakers (Ozzy Osborne). I have also heard both clear and incomprehensible (marked and unmarked) RP and Estuary English speakers, so your claim that certain regional accents are inferior because they are less clear than social varieties such as RP is unfounded.
Secondly, accents such as Brummie, Scouse, Geordie and Cockney are predominantly working-class accents. This is why you refer to them as 'uneducated' and why you appear to be implying that middle-class RP/Estuary sounds more educated and therefore superior. Don't make the mistake of equating intelligence with education, by the way. Some of the most highly educated people I have ever met have also been the most stupid.
Thirdly, there is no 'proper' way to pronounce English. There are many DIFFERENT ways (social and regional accents), but there is no CORRECT way.
Re: "Yes I know Brummie accent comes from Birmingham which used to be heavily industrialised, but that's not the cause of my dislike of this peculiar accent. It's just the way they pronounce words. It's like a mumble for a foreigner. The same holds for Scouse accent." A survey carried out recently in Britain suggested that foreigners prefer the Brummie accent to RP and many other British English accents because it is clearer, more musical (i.e. it has greater intonational variablity) and more expressive. The foreign respondents in this survey certainly certainly didn't think Brummie sounded 'like a mumble', and this proves that your perceptions are influenced by the social connotations which the accent possesses.
Re: "Hythloday, I'm sorry if my post about Brummie accent offended you in some way. I'm sure people in Birmingham are very kind and friendly, and do not deserve to be discriminated [against]." Not at all. I love a good natter. Accent preference is not just a simple matter of taste, though, is it? You have to admit that there are usually a number of often very complex social reasons why we like the accents that we do. Scouse, for example, was a very popular accent in the 60s and 70s, but is now one of the most heavily stigmatised British English accents. Any idea why?
Re: "Firstly, Hythloday is a Brummie but Birmingham isn't exactly in the North so I suggest that you rephrase your apology. " Thanks, A.S.C.M. - Birmingham is not in the north or south of England, it is in the middle (i.e. the Midlands).
Firstly, I think you are confusing pronunciation with enunciation. It is possible for a person with a regional accent to enunciate words clearly and communicate effectively. It is equally possible for a person with an RP accent to mumble words in an incoherent fashion. For example, I have heard many clear Birmingham speakers (Cat Deeley, Nigel Mansell) and a number of unclear Birmingham speakers (Ozzy Osborne). I have also heard both clear and incomprehensible (marked and unmarked) RP and Estuary English speakers, so your claim that certain regional accents are inferior because they are less clear than social varieties such as RP is unfounded.
Secondly, accents such as Brummie, Scouse, Geordie and Cockney are predominantly working-class accents. This is why you refer to them as 'uneducated' and why you appear to be implying that middle-class RP/Estuary sounds more educated and therefore superior. Don't make the mistake of equating intelligence with education, by the way. Some of the most highly educated people I have ever met have also been the most stupid.
Thirdly, there is no 'proper' way to pronounce English. There are many DIFFERENT ways (social and regional accents), but there is no CORRECT way.
Re: "Yes I know Brummie accent comes from Birmingham which used to be heavily industrialised, but that's not the cause of my dislike of this peculiar accent. It's just the way they pronounce words. It's like a mumble for a foreigner. The same holds for Scouse accent." A survey carried out recently in Britain suggested that foreigners prefer the Brummie accent to RP and many other British English accents because it is clearer, more musical (i.e. it has greater intonational variablity) and more expressive. The foreign respondents in this survey certainly certainly didn't think Brummie sounded 'like a mumble', and this proves that your perceptions are influenced by the social connotations which the accent possesses.
Re: "Hythloday, I'm sorry if my post about Brummie accent offended you in some way. I'm sure people in Birmingham are very kind and friendly, and do not deserve to be discriminated [against]." Not at all. I love a good natter. Accent preference is not just a simple matter of taste, though, is it? You have to admit that there are usually a number of often very complex social reasons why we like the accents that we do. Scouse, for example, was a very popular accent in the 60s and 70s, but is now one of the most heavily stigmatised British English accents. Any idea why?
Re: "Firstly, Hythloday is a Brummie but Birmingham isn't exactly in the North so I suggest that you rephrase your apology. " Thanks, A.S.C.M. - Birmingham is not in the north or south of England, it is in the middle (i.e. the Midlands).