What makes French a Latin-Germanic mixed language

greg   Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:39 am GMT
Leasnam : « That is the task of those who are prefessionally trained linguists to determine. They do not take their crat lightly. It is probably best for us not to try and undermine what others are better at doing than we. »

Pur irénisme de circonstance, mon cher Leasnam. Ton angélisme serait presque touchant. Mais le refus de discerner l'idéologie tapie sous la "technicité" est en soi une idéologie — aussi peu ragoûtante que les dogmes latinocentriste et créolomane.

Sans compter que tu nous refais le coup de l'argument d'autorité version doucereuse : cette objection a été dûment traitée il y a déjà quelques pages...
Lobo   Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:26 pm GMT
Le mot 'oeil' ou 'yeux' au pluriel du latin oculus
italien occhio
portugais olho
français oeil
anglais eye
espagnol ojo
danois oje (sans l'accent désolé)
néerlandais oog
suédois öga
allemand augen

D'où l'influence est-elle la plus marquée? L'étymologie anglaise nous mentionne une origine germanique alors que l'étymologie du français nous propose une provenance du latin.
Lobo   Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:46 pm GMT
Et j'aurais pu ajouter norvégien oye (sans l'accent, désolé)
catalan ull
roumain ochi
Leasnam   Tue Jul 21, 2009 2:50 pm GMT
<<D'où l'influence est-elle la plus marquée? L'étymologie anglaise nous mentionne une origine germanique alors que l'étymologie du français nous propose une provenance du latin. >>

Are you asking whether there is any influence between 'eye' and 'yeux'? If so, I don't think so. It's just coincidence that they appear kinda similar.
Lobo   Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:12 pm GMT
Non, le mot oeil en français est différent du latin oculus, mais son équivalent eye en anglais est tout aussi différent du mot germanique augon (augen en germanique moderne) dont il proviendrait. Donc, il n'y a pas plus de différence dans le lexique des langues romanes d'aujourd'hui et celui du latin classique, que le lexique des langues germaniques modernes et celui du protogermanique, voire même qu'on pourrait proposer une origine latine à ce mot utilisé dans les langues germaniques contemporaines!
Leasnam   Tue Jul 21, 2009 3:35 pm GMT
<<mais son équivalent eye en anglais est tout aussi différent du mot germanique augon (augen en germanique moderne) dont il proviendrait. >>

Yes, English/Scots/Frisian in comparison with French show some parallel evolutions, especially in regards to "g" sounds (PGmc dagaz > day/day/dei; Lat pagare > payer), but English "eye" is not as far from other Germanic leids (see below); whether French 'yeux' is evenfar as 'eye' is open for discussion, I am not that couth with the other Oil langues:

English: eye, eyes/eyen
Scots: ee een
W Frisian: each, eagen
Dansk: øje, øjne
Norsk: øye, øyne
Lobo   Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:02 pm GMT
Leasnam:''but English "eye" is not as far from other Germanic leids (see below); whether French 'yeux' is evenfar as 'eye' is open for discussion, I am not that couth with the other Oil langues:''

English: eye, eyes/eyen
Scots: ee een
W Frisian: each, eagen
Dansk: øje, øjne
Norsk: øye, øyne

et le néerlandais oog
le suédois öga
l'allemand augen
ne les oublions pas

Un petit aperçu des langues d'oïl:
http://www.dico-definitions.com/dictionnaire/definition/22810/Oeil.php
Lobo   Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:09 pm GMT
Curieusement, peut-être à rapprocher d'oc (langue) pour le latin oculus devenu occhio en italien et d'oïl (langue) pour le français devenu oeil.
just a comment   Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:04 am GMT
it seems now clear for everyone here that french language is nothing like a mixed latin-germanic, at best it has some minor frankish influences on it.

And what is sure is that culturally speaking France is very different from the germanic nations of northern Europe: this little caricature concerning the french/english might be a bit exagerated but still be very true. We understand well many of the cultural differences between french and anglo-saxon mentalities.

http://www.greenbees.fr/06_Ressources/06_Intercultural_Differences_UK_France/Intercultural_UK_France_EN.htm
rep   Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:57 am GMT
It seems clear for everyone,that France has very different regions.Northern and Northeastern France has common features with Germanic nations of Northern Europe. French mentality in Northern France differs from French mentality in Southern France.
???   Wed Jul 22, 2009 10:26 am GMT
What is the difference between French mentality in Northem France and French mentality in Southern France?
just a comment   Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:18 am GMT
" It seems clear for everyone,that France has very different regions.Northern and Northeastern France has common features with Germanic nations of Northern Europe. French mentality in Northern France differs from French mentality in Southern France."


really?? All those stereotypes that were described in the comic strip above apply to all of France, and especially in Paris.
In fact the initail purpose was to compare life and work in Paris vs life and work in London.

That is your choice to think that mentality in northern France is like what can be found in UK, Germany or netherlands but that is basically very wrong. As a parisian, when I go in Uk, Netherlands or germany I feel myself to be in a complete different world, even if it is not so far geographically speaking. Many people from germanic nations fail to be aware of this.
Really?   Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:44 pm GMT
<<it seems now clear for everyone here that french language is nothing like a mixed latin-germanic, at best it has some minor frankish influences on it.
>>

Really? You can only speak for yourself. Personally, I disagree with you.
just a comment   Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:36 pm GMT
" It seems clear for everyone,that France has very different regions.Northern and Northeastern France has common features with Germanic nations of Northern Europe. "

I think many people tend to think northern France to be like England, Germany or netherlands because many people represent themselves the geographical position of the northern part of France as being in the same part of Europe that those germanic nations.

people usually have some difficulties be aware that, even from the northern half of France most germanic nations are situated much more north. For a frenchman from, say, Paris; Germany, UK or the Netherlands are seen as "countries of the north"... and they are! only a tiny part of southern Germany lies at similar latitudes with Paris. Paris and Munich might being at similar latitudes, Paris has of course a much more "southern" culture than Munich...

The reality is that northern france is of course much more similar to southern France than it is to England or Netherlands for exemple.

http://cjoint.com/data/hwuHbt1VHg.htm
guest guest   Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:09 am GMT
" What is the difference between French mentality in Northem France and French mentality in Southern France? "


C'est un peu plus compliqué qu'une simple opposition nord/sud... surtout concernant les "mentalités". Et tout dépend aussi du point de vue, qui est souvent caricatural. La Provence de pagnol n'existe plus et ne representait pas tout le sud de la France. Inversement la mentalité Parisienne n'a jamais résumé le nord de la France en général... Le cliché du parisien intello/snob/bobo n'a pas grand chose à voir en terme de mentalité avec le cliché du ch'timi, vu comme un buveur de bière amateur de cabanes à frites...

Pour illustrer et detendre l'atmosphere, voici une petite vision de la France vue depuis Paris!

http://www.cijoint.fr/cj200907/cijuIkUy0v.jpg