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Is the Mandarin Chinese uniform everywhere?
Shuimo,
威尔士人不是英国人，他们是威尔士人。英国才是英国，威尔士才是威尔士，苏格兰才是苏格兰，爱尔兰菜是爱尔兰，就中国才是中国，台湾也才是台湾。 我的问题： 如果台湾是中国的的话，台湾人为什么说他们不是中国人， 才是台湾人呢？如果他们想，他们不是中国人，他们怎么是呢？是台湾人自己的选择，是不是？中国用武力,暴力吗？你想，武力,暴力好吗？ 所以，如果你想，台湾是中国的，我想香港是英国的。公正的吗？
Caspian Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:10 pm GMT
Shuimo, 威尔士人不是英国人，他们是威尔士人。英国才是英国，威尔士才是威尔士，苏格兰才是苏格兰，爱尔兰菜是爱尔兰，就中国才是中国，台湾也才是台湾。 我的问题： 如果台湾是中国的的话，台湾人为什么说他们不是中国人， 才是台湾人呢？如果他们想，他们不是中国人，他们怎么是呢？是台湾人自己的选择，是不是？中国用武力,暴力吗？你想，武力,暴力好吗？ 所以，如果你想，台湾是中国的，我想香港是英国的。公正的吗？ ============================== 装什么蒜？你是不懂中文？？？？？ Is a Wesh not British? Is a Scotish not British? 搞清楚了这个问题再跟我来说两岸问题！
Shuimo, I can't be bothered to write this in Chinese, so I'll write it in my native English which I'm sure you know well.
Yes, of course I'm literate in Chinese - that's why my previous messages were in Chinese. What I was saying, was that if Taiwanese people wish to be individual, then they should be allowed to be individual - no, Hong Kong is no longer British, but if you're going to insist that you own Taiwan, then I insist we own Hong Kong. Fair's fair. I'm not making assumptions, I just don't understand your opinion. Taiwanese people wish to be separate - so you're forcing them to be China's. Do you think force is a good thing? Perhaps it's like Tibet for you, I don't know. But the American Navy is there right now, guarding Taiwan.
Caspian Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:07 pm GMT
Shuimo, I can't be bothered to write this in Chinese, so I'll write it in my native English which I'm sure you know well. Yes, of course I'm literate in Chinese - that's why my previous messages were in Chinese. What I was saying, was that if Taiwanese people wish to be individual, then they should be allowed to be individual - no, Hong Kong is no longer British, but if you're going to insist that you own Taiwan, then I insist we own Hong Kong. Fair's fair. I'm not making assumptions, I just don't understand your opinion. Taiwanese people wish to be separate - so you're forcing them to be China's. Do you think force is a good thing? Perhaps it's like Tibet for you, I don't know. But the American Navy is there right now, guarding Taiwan. =================== Answer this question, plz? Is a Wesh not British? Is a Scotish not British?
They're British, but they're not English - and saying they're British is like saying that China is Asian. Ask a Welsh, Scottish or Irish where they come from and they'll say Wales, Scotland or Ireland - even the Cornish tend to do the same. Do you know about the troubles in Ireland? How many deaths have been caused by us, the tampering Brits, trying to own places that don't belong to us?
Caspian Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:58 pm GMT
They're British, but they're not English - and saying they're British is like saying that China is Asian. Ask a Welsh, Scottish or Irish where they come from and they'll say Wales, Scotland or Ireland - even the Cornish tend to do the same. Do you know about the troubles in Ireland? How many deaths have been caused by us, the tampering Brits, trying to own places that don't belong to us? ------------------------------------- GOOOOOOOD! Just take out northern ireland from the UK then? what do you think? British = Europrean????????????????? It is the first time for me to hear such equation theory!LOOOL
<< GOOOOOOOD!
Just take out northern ireland from the UK then? what do you think? British = Europrean????????????????? It is the first time for me to hear such equation theory!LOOOL >> The ideal certainly would be to give northern Ireland back to Ireland - however it's too late for this, as they consider themselves to be British - a lot of Brits went over there, mainly from Scotland, several hundred years ago which began the conquering - so they consider themselves Northern Irish - and the Irish people probably wouldn't readily accept them - the atmosphere is too tight to suggest this, anyway. Ideally, we would not have taken Northern Ireland in the first place, but without a time machine, there's not much that can be done now, unfortunately - have a look at some of the propaganda, it's actually very interesting. Yes, Britain is indeed a part of Europe - and the thing about Europe is that one can choose (as a country) how involved one gets. For example, being an offshore island, immigration rules are bound to be different - you can't just flash an ID card at the passport officer, for example. We still use the British Pound (英镑), whereas most (not all) of Europe have converted to the Euro. So yes, certainly it's perfectly valid to say that Britain is a part of Europe - as indeed it is - but this is completely out of choice, as it is with all countries in the EU. If we wanted to, we could decide to have nothing to do with it whatsoever, freely. Taiwan, however, doesn't get much say in the matter of whether or not is is part of China - because China refuses to accept it as an individual country. A Taiwanese friend of mine told me that Taiwan was the only country not to be recognised in the UN - for this reason, you cannot compare Taiwan's being part of China to Britain's being part of Europe, because of this force factor.
《《《Caspian Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:36 pm GMT
The ideal certainly would be to give northern Ireland back to Ireland - however it's too late for this, as they consider themselves to be British - a lot of Brits went over there, mainly from Scotland, several hundred years ago which began the conquering - so they consider themselves Northern Irish - and the Irish people probably wouldn't readily accept them - the atmosphere is too tight to suggest this, anyway. Ideally, we would not have taken Northern Ireland in the first place, but without a time machine, there's not much that can be done now, unfortunately - have a look at some of the propaganda, it's actually very interesting. Yes, Britain is indeed a part of Europe - and the thing about Europe is that one can choose (as a country) how involved one gets. For example, being an offshore island, immigration rules are bound to be different - you can't just flash an ID card at the passport officer, for example. We still use the British Pound (英镑), whereas most (not all) of Europe have converted to the Euro. So yes, certainly it's perfectly valid to say that Britain is a part of Europe - as indeed it is - but this is completely out of choice, as it is with all countries in the EU. If we wanted to, we could decide to have nothing to do with it whatsoever, freely. Taiwan, however, doesn't get much say in the matter of whether or not is is part of China - because China refuses to accept it as an individual country. A Taiwanese friend of mine told me that Taiwan was the only country not to be recognised in the UN - for this reason, you cannot compare Taiwan's being part of China to Britain's being part of Europe, because of this force factor. 》》》 You missed the point completely! True, Irish is European, English is European, Scotish is European, British is European, isn't French European? But then isn't Spanish European???? Isn't Danish European??? Hiding part of the story only makes your motives all the more exposed!!! LOL Are you assuming (or expecting???) that people outside UK treat Northern Ireland and Wales on a par with Spain, Russia, and China????? My mentioning of the involved story of polticial and ethincal realities involving Ireland and Nothern Ireland in relation to Britian and the UK and Wales and England and Europe hasn't made you reflect upon your mixed logic in domestic and international politics???? When you applly yr already muddled logic to the Taiwan issue of China, Taiwan issue simply sees no hope of resolution! LOL BTW: Your mentioning of pound use in UK inrelation to EU (which is no big news ) is irrelavent.
Caspian先生（抑或女士？），你在台湾问题上以偏概全，逻辑混乱，都不值一驳！
如果你对中国台湾问题真有兴趣，建议你多去研究一下中国历史，尤其是近现代史，搞清台湾问题的来龙去脉，这对懂得中文的你应该不是什么难事！
<< You missed the point completely!
True, Irish is European, English is European, Scotish is European, British is European, isn't French European? But then isn't Spanish European???? Isn't Danish European??? Hiding part of the story only makes your motives all the more exposed!!! LOL Are you assuming (or expecting???) that people outside UK treat Northern Ireland and Wales on a par with Spain, Russia, and China????? My mentioning of the involved story of polticial and ethincal realities involving Ireland and Nothern Ireland in relation to Britian and the UK and Wales and England and Europe hasn't made you reflect upon your mixed logic in domestic and international politics???? >> I don't fully understand what you're trying to say here - yes, all these countries are European, what's your point? I'm not hiding this fact, in fact I'm the first to admit it! I don't have these 'hidden motives' that you talk of, you're looking for something that isn't there. Please explain, what mixed logic? Being part of Europe has absolutely nothing to do with Taiwan's being part of China. Why did you bring Europe into the conversation in the first place? Northern Ireland cannot be compared to Taiwan, because all the residents of Northern Ireland accept that they're part of Britain. You may notice that the Northern Irish accent resembles a Scottish one to some extent - Scottish settlers moved over there to claim it, encouraged by the King himself. No, Northern Ireland is not viewed as a separate country - but you must understand, nor do they view themselves as one. Taiwan, on the other hand, does view itself as a separate country - ask any Taiwanese person. I do not agree with our conquering of Northern Ireland and holding it by force - but now, it's too late to go back, because the citizens of NI have accepted it. Nor do I agree with China's forceful holding of Taiwan, as the Taiwanese themselves are against it. You're communist, they're socialist. You use 简体字，they use 繁体字. These countries are viewed as separate countries by people outside of China. My mentioning of the Pound was to demonstrate that members of the EU are free to dip in and out as much as they want, to any extent - they're not forced, as Taiwan is. < 如果你对中国台湾问题真有兴趣，建议你多去研究一下中国历史，尤其是近现代史，搞清台湾问题的来龙去脉，这对懂得中文的你应该不是什么难事！> 好，我也想，历史很有意思，我要看一下。我不想要辩 - 我喜欢和平，可是我想我的中文还不怎么好:(
Shuimo, the difference between NI or Wales, and Taiwan is that Britain retains control of these provinces. On the other hand Taiwan is de-facto independent. If a country cannot retain control of it's own territory through politics, culture or force then it does not really deserve to have it. If Wales were to drive the British out and declare independence, then I would consider they have won their right to freedom.
It depends on your definition of uniform. I learnt from Korean drama that despite the small size of Korea S, there are regional dialects that are different from the standard form spoken in the capital. Naturally with the size of China roughly equal to that of Europe, Mandarin Chinese by no means comes in a single pattern. According to Wikipedia, a great chunk of the Chinese population natively speak various languages, linguistically categorised as Mandarin Chinese. It can be further broken down into Southwestern, Northwestern, Northern, Northeastern Mandarin, etc. From personal experiences, Southwestern Mandarin, for example, the Sichuan language, is fundamentally unintelligible to me, as a native Mandarin speaker, while I can manage to understand dialects of Northern Plains, with a lot of efforts. In comparison, Northeastern Mandarin is the easiest, as long as the local terms are not involved. As officially defined, standard Mandarin, alternatively called the textbook language, is an artifical creation based on the Beijing dialect. To my knowledge, some Mandarin variants are strikingly close to it; some resemble none of it. Moreover, to abided by the regulation, anyone who appears on the national television has to adhere to this version. In reality, it only applies to TV personalities, though strictly to newsreaders, and in most cases, programme hosts are intentionallly or unintentionally prone to a Beijing accent, or a general northern one, different from the standard to a degree. For the uneducated, or those with low education, on the other hand, say peasants, of regional Mandarin speaking backgrounds, they mostly speak their dialect with people who do not speak it but standard Mandarin. It happens probably due to either their dialect is used as medium in school or they have even never been to school to access standard Mandarin learning. IMO, the similarity their monther tongue shares with standard Mandarin, however, does not help a bit, or can even pose a burden on their adjusting to ‘speaking properly’. Interestingly, some claim Northeastern Mandarin is closer to the standard than the Beijing dialect is, and accordingly, Northeasterners’ not speaking the standard way is justified. At this point, I would argue the Government intends to bring about the unification of Mandarin Chinese, which yet enjoys substantial diversity to this day.
>>>>>>>>>>Caspian Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:31 pm GMT
<< You missed the point completely! True, Irish is European, English is European, Scotish is European, British is European, isn't French European? But then isn't Spanish European???? Isn't Danish European??? Hiding part of the story only makes your motives all the more exposed!!! LOL Are you assuming (or expecting???) that people outside UK treat Northern Ireland and Wales on a par with Spain, Russia, and China????? My mentioning of the involved story of polticial and ethincal realities involving Ireland and Nothern Ireland in relation to Britian and the UK and Wales and England and Europe hasn't made you reflect upon your mixed logic in domestic and international politics???? >> I don't fully understand what you're trying to say here - yes, all these countries are European, what's your point? I'm not hiding this fact, in fact I'm the first to admit it! I don't have these 'hidden motives' that you talk of, you're looking for something that isn't there. Please explain, what mixed logic? Being part of Europe has absolutely nothing to do with Taiwan's being part of China. Why did you bring Europe into the conversation in the first place? Northern Ireland cannot be compared to Taiwan, because all the residents of Northern Ireland accept that they're part of Britain. You may notice that the Northern Irish accent resembles a Scottish one to some extent - Scottish settlers moved over there to claim it, encouraged by the King himself. No, Northern Ireland is not viewed as a separate country - but you must understand, nor do they view themselves as one. Taiwan, on the other hand, does view itself as a separate country - ask any Taiwanese person. I do not agree with our conquering of Northern Ireland and holding it by force - but now, it's too late to go back, because the citizens of NI have accepted it. Nor do I agree with China's forceful holding of Taiwan, as the Taiwanese themselves are against it. You're communist, they're socialist. You use 简体字，they use 繁体字. These countries are viewed as separate countries by people outside of China. My mentioning of the Pound was to demonstrate that members of the EU are free to dip in and out as much as they want, to any extent - they're not forced, as Taiwan is. < 如果你对中国台湾问题真有兴趣，建议你多去研究一下中国历史，尤其是近现代史，搞清台湾问题的来龙去脉，这对懂得中文的你应该不是什么难事！> 好，我也想，历史很有意思，我要看一下。我不想要辩 - 我喜欢和平，可是我想我的中文还不怎么好:( <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< OK. Taiwanese is Chinese or Asian just like Shanghainese or Beijinger is or Hunanese is Chineseor Asian, just as Scottish in relation to British or European! Just remember this: It is not TOO LATE for the Chinese to bring Taiwan back to the arms of the motherland. |