Which Is Like Castellano...?

nala   Sat May 02, 2009 5:27 am GMT
Gogo=I'm from the USA
gogo   Sat May 02, 2009 10:37 am GMT
I presume you're learning the Mexican variant, aren't you?

Do you even know how European Spanish sounds like?
guest guest   Sat May 02, 2009 10:52 am GMT
"In English Castilian means European Spanish"



Well that's confusing to call "castillian" European Spanish since in Spain there are not only one language Spoken. That is presicely why in Spain, they call the "dominant" language Castillian (because it comes form the central regions of Spain called Castilla(s)) But in Spain there are others language that could be called "Spanish" (since they are from Spain too); such as Catalan, Galician, Asturian, etc.

On a other way, there is no reason to call Spain's Spanish differently than latin American Spanish since it is basically the same language. Inversely the different forms of Spanish languages spoken in Spain such as Castillian (usually called Spanish), Catalan and Galician are distinct languages as is Portuguese and French.
Guest   Sat May 02, 2009 2:14 pm GMT
Catalan is not only spoken in Spain, but in France too, so following your stupid reasoning we could call Catalan "French", just because it is spoken in parts of France.
*sigh*   Tue May 05, 2009 3:27 am GMT
It's actually a tiny little bit more complicated. Let's see:


Argentinean (and Uruguayan, may I add) Spanish use "vos" instead of the more common (at least better known in the US) "tú". This is an archaic form of the 2nd singular person; it was used to address Lords in a highly respectful way. What's actually funny is that (let me make bullet points here so that we don't get them mixed up)

Spain: modern day "pure" Spanish Spanish use both "tú" and "vosotros". Essentially (and historically) a much less informal way of addressing another. Both show the same level of respectfulness, (instead of throwing a "usted", which would nowadays denote formalisms).

Argentina, Paraguay, Bolivia (partially), Uruguay (partially): Forms "vos" and "ustedes". As I said, these two were originally "higher" Spanish, but now hold the same level of as the "tú" in other countries. To address someone respectfully, "usted" is used in the single. However, since these countries are found in the so called "Cono Sur" the language there has been influenced and developed in a different way. Argentinean Spanish inherited many colloquialisms (Argentinean slang comes directly) from Italian, Paraguayan from the native Guaraní, and so on. Many native Spanish speakers from Central America find it difficult to understand because of this.

Now,

(please correct me if I'm generalizing, but I dare say that) All countries in Latin America EXCEPT FOR Argentina, Paraguay, certain regions of Bolivia and Uruguay (I'll make a special comment about Uruguayan Spanish afterwards): Use "tú" and "ustedes". Which means, the language was mixed and they use an archaic formalism in the plural with the informal version of the single.

Note on Uruguayan Spanish: Use of "vos" while conjugating verbs as with "tú". Aka, a headache for any non-native speaker.

With this said, what version is closest to "Castellano"? As of right now, only Spanish (from Spain), Uruguayans and Argentineans refer to their native language as "Castellano". All others use "Español" most commonly (but yes, there are exceptions). Both Spanish Spanish and Argentinean Spanish are the "purest" grammatically, even though the latter has strong italian influences regarding pronunciation.
blepman   Tue May 05, 2009 3:45 am GMT
I argue strongly against all of these people saying that argentine spanish is the form closest to european spanish in latin america. I think these people are either ignoring or ignorant of the fact that voseo is the norm in argentina while virtually nonexistent in spain. Layer on top of this their distinctive intonation(sounding more like italian than spanish) and you have a very distinct difference. Also I'd like to add that voseo is also very common in much of central america (not including méxico), and in the paisa region of colombia, not just limited to the southern cone.
Waffen SS   Tue May 05, 2009 2:11 pm GMT
sounding more like italian than spanish

That Argentinian Spanish has different intonation does not mean it sounds like Italian. It's still is Spanish so it sounds like European Spanish more than like Italian. Argentinian Spanish has the /x/ sound unlike the rest of American Spanish dialects.
Alessandro   Tue May 05, 2009 2:21 pm GMT
I'm Italian and I have to say that Argentians have a very strong accent when they speak Italian.
Harman   Tue May 05, 2009 6:12 pm GMT
Sigh wrote:
'Many native Spanish speakers from Central America find it difficult to understand because of this'.


I don't agree with this, i'm spaniard and i understand all spanish lenguages round the globe without problem (watching tv). The same as brazilian portuguese (not so easily of course) and it is another lenguage that i've never studied.

Curiously european portuguese is more difficult than brazilian one for me...and they are my neighbors, perhaps because its accent.

Anybody know why brazilian portuguese is easier to understand for spanish people than european one?
gogo   Tue May 05, 2009 7:29 pm GMT
Oh my God, what a question...

The Portuguese grammar is different in Portugal and in Brazil. The phonetics as well.
Brazil is isolated in South America and it's surrounded by los hispanos.
That's why you understand more Brazilians than Portuguese people.
Brazilian Portuguese has more or less the same grammar rules like Spanish from South America.
Held   Tue May 05, 2009 7:36 pm GMT
Brazilian Portuguese has more or less the same grammar rules like Spanish from South America

Not at all! The grammar of Brazilian Portuguese is more analytical and "simplified" than the Spanish one
*sigh*   Wed May 06, 2009 12:26 am GMT
Dear blepman:
Did you read what I wrote, at all? I strongly encourage you to take a closer look to whatever it is you think you're disagreeing to, you'll save me a couple posts of explanations. I never said Argentinean Spanish is the closest to European Spanish in Latin America, but I DID say that, strictly grammatically, it is the only (along with the Spanish spoken in Spain) that preserves coherent use of the second person. Considering the tiny little fact that Old Castilian implemented both "tú" and "vos" and their respective plural forms, I'd dare say that those two (Argentinean and Spanish) at least maintained the coherence in the usage of the second person.

Harman: Af far as I know, Spain constitutes the Iberian peninsula along with Portugal, and is just one (tiny, though, I'll give you that) Ocean away from Central America. Furthermore, the use of "many" allows space for numerous exceptions, like your brilliant *ahem* SPANIARD self. Which means... I rest my case.
*sigh*   Wed May 06, 2009 12:27 am GMT
Dear blepman:
Did you read what I wrote, at all? I strongly encourage you to take a closer look to whatever it is you think you're disagreeing to, you'll save me a couple posts of explanations. I never said Argentinean Spanish is the closest to European Spanish in Latin America, but I DID say that, strictly grammatically, it is the only (along with the Spanish spoken in Spain) that preserves coherent use of the second person. Considering the tiny little fact that Old Castilian implemented both "tú" and "vos" and their respective plural forms, I'd dare say that those two (Argentinean and Spanish) at least maintained the coherence in the usage of the second person.

Harman: Af far as I know, Spain constitutes the Iberian peninsula along with Portugal, and is just one (tiny, though, I'll give you that) Ocean away from Central America. Furthermore, the use of "many" allows space for numerous exceptions, like your brilliant *ahem* SPANIARD self. Which means... I rest my case.
blepman   Wed May 06, 2009 11:51 pm GMT
Dear "*sigh*", when I mentioned "the people arguing that argentine spanish sounded most like european" I wasn't including you in that category. I did read what you wrote, and really appreciated it. I'm sorry if I gave different impression.
The only bit of what I wrote that directly referred to your previous post was when I mentioned the fairly common existence of voseo in some latin american countries outside of the southern cone, expanding on your list which only included the southern cone countries.

and in response to "waffen ss", the intonation (not the actual words, but the way they vary pitch) to me sounds more like italian than spanish. Although I'm pretty inexperienced with Italian so my perception might not be accurate in regards to that language.
SpanishRocks   Wed May 27, 2009 7:42 pm GMT
Interesting responses.

I've spoken European Spanish for years and have befriended Spanish speakers from across the globe. I don't think the initial (Nala's?) question has an easy answer. Spanish in Spain is pronounced a little differently from region to region, and American Spanish, likewise, is different from country to country. Spanish spoken in Andalusia, for example, is very different from the rest of Spain (greater use of "ustedes", deletion of the "s") but is quite close to Caribbean Spanish, where the early colonists landed first (I'm talking islands like DR, Puerto Rico, Cuba).

I was taught that Mexican Spanish was very to Peninsular Spanish (in terms of the words used, not pronunciation), and in general, Mexicans are easier for me to understand than other speakers. Argentinean/Uruguayan Spanish, although it has vos, has other colloquialisms that are more unique to the Cono Sur region ("eso es rebueno/remalo", for example).

Elite Filipino Spanish (if they still speak it) is also very close to Castilian Spanish. Although I doubt it's widely spoken anymore, the upper class Filipinos were influenced by Mexican and European Spanish. Filipino Spanish-speakers also maintained the "ceceo" practice (saying "th" in place of "ce," "ci" or "z"), which no other American Spanish country does.