Why can't grown-ups learn a language without an accent?

Super Korean   Fri May 29, 2009 6:03 pm GMT
We can learn a new language at any point of our lives but grown-ups can not learn a foreign language with a native-like accent as kids do.

When a family moves to another country, the kids pick up the local language much faster and their accent becomes completely native-like. Parents can learn the language as well but they can't shake their own accents.

Why can't most adults learn a foreign language with a native-like accent?
Is it because of their brains or articulators(tongues, lips)?
Language   Fri May 29, 2009 6:16 pm GMT
Neurology: the brain changes throughout your life, especially up to about the age of 25. You're born with the ability to acquire a language/ languages by being surrounded by it (them if more than 1). This gradually diminishes as the brain develops and changes. By puberty you can't do that any more and have to study to learn a new language and will not master it natively.
K. T.   Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:09 am GMT
Accent or Native mastery?

Actors and others can speak with a native-sounding accent (yes, even after the age of 25!), but some people don't seem to reach this level.

Native mastery of the language? Nicolai Gedda (Swedish/Russian) supposedly had/has mastery of six languages. I know that he knows Italian, English, German, Russian, and Swedish. I'm not sure what the sixth language is, perhaps French. He did get Russian (Dad), Swedish (Mom), and exposure to German very young.

Luca, the internet polyglot on Youtube, has a very native-sounding accent in American English, and his French sounds good as well.
K. T.   Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:13 am GMT
Okay, he had mastery of Latin, not sure about Italian.

Is/was he extraordinary? If one person can do this, why not others?
Did being trilingual from childhood have anything to do with this?
fraz   Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:48 pm GMT
An adult's vocal chords are hardwired to suit their native tongue but a child's can still be moulded. That's my theory.

Anyway, does having an accent really matter? English speakers are used to hearing all sorts of foreign accents and - with a bit of effort in the listening department - it rarely hinders our understanding, why should speakers of other languages be put off by an unusual sounding voice?
K. T.   Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:59 pm GMT
"An adult's vocal chords are hardwired to suit their native tongue but a child's can still be moulded. That's my theory."

I'm afraid I disagree. Do you have any anatomical proof for your theory? I'll be glad to look at it in any romance language, German,
Japanese, or English.

Some people do manage to sound like natives after learning a language at a older age. I think it has more to do with the processing of sound than the larynx.
truth   Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:02 pm GMT
<<Why can't most adults learn a foreign language with a native-like accent? >>



Firstly, because they're too lazy.
Secondly, neurology.
K. T.   Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:15 pm GMT
If it's simply "neurology", then being lazy isn't a factor.

However, since some people manage to sound native, we have to ask why this occurs. Are their brains somehow different?

It's like the "H" sounds of English and French speakers who can make an "H", but dislike doing this. Or people in the US who don't want to roll any "R" sounds in other languages. They must feel self conscious.
Johnny   Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:25 pm GMT
1) Because they have to go to work and can't watch cartoons or play all day long like kids who can learn 24/7.

2) Because they aren't motivated enough. Who really wants to learn everything, and it's never enough? Only a minority of very motivated people.

3) Because they are adults, and their minds are not blank, so they are biased. Biased toward sounds, biased toward meanings, biased toward everything.

4) Because not everyone learns languages easily, for the same reason not everyone likes math or is a good musician.

The brain might change a bit too, physically.
Linguist   Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:27 pm GMT
You're really asking two different questions here:

1) Why do kids acquire language to native-speaker levels faster than adults do?
and
2) Why do kids lose the accents of their (first) native language faster/better than adults do?

The first question is about actually knowing and speaking the language: are the people learning the language able to think and speak in that language as well as native speakers? (A good test of this is their reaction to swear/taboo words; as native speakers, we often have visceral reactions to words we have learned are 'bad', while curse words we learn in other languages we're only intellectually aware that they're 'bad').

The second question has to do with *sounding* like a native speaker. The reason actors can to this with minor success (some are clearly better at it than others) is because they only have a few lines they have to memorize. It's possible to sound like a native speaker just saying a few lines when you have no idea how to speak the language at any meaningful level.


I can tell you definitively it is NOT because of biological changes-your vocal chords, lips, mouths, and tongues do NOT change depending on the language that you learn.

And it's not really laziness either, although with a lot of time and effort there are some adults who could also achieve native or near-native accents/fluency.

There is something in linguistics called the "critical period", which is the period in which most people can learn a language with relative ease. This period ranges, but usually ends when kids hit puberty. The reason for this critical period is that during puberty, the brain starts trimming down neurons, only keeping the ones that it has learned already. That's why kids can learn massive amounts of information almost without pause (think about it, they learn how to read, write, do math, tie their shoes, walk, etc., in a 5-year span) but as an adult it's harder to pick up and retain that much information easily.

That's not to say that it's impossible to learn a language natively after the critical period, but it involves a variety of factors, including: motivation, time spent with other native speakers of that language (there's a linguistic reason from this as well), and natural ability to learn language among others.
Xie   Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:41 pm GMT
There are already assumptions made within the questions of our OP, making this topic undebatable. You're assuming that a native(-like) accent is impossible for some reasons. But so far, I don't see any literature that has proved this as a general truth. In the real word, the general truth is just that almost all people can't get a native(-like) accent for reasons ranging from laziness, self-consciousness to incomplete acquisition of the accent. For 99% of the learners, accent doesn't matter that much after all, if you agree, and it'd be alright for them, therefore, to maintain a foreign accent.
*sigh*   Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:25 pm GMT
I think it depends a lot on what the person is exposed to when he/she is little. Actually, lol, this reminds me that one of the times I took the TOEFL they had an excerpt from a lecture about how babies practice intonations and sounds while babbling and how every baby no matter where you go starts off with the same sounds and then progresses to imitate the ones he/she hears his/her mommy/daddy/granny/whoever's around.

Anyhoo. I kinda know what you guys are talking about but don't totally agree with many of the views exposed here. I am personally fluent in Spanish, English, German and Italian. I can understand French and Portuguese (both orally and when written), and I can pick up things in Dutch and Swedish but never had ANY sort of formal education in any of the above mentioned language so I can't really say I speak them. However, the first two languages I learned (Spanish is my mother language, and I started with German when I was four) had a HUGE influence in how I learned the others later on. Furthermore, teenagers tend to find an "accent" in my spoken english that most adults can't, but it's not because of the lack of fluidity in the discourse, but because I might pronounce d's like t's when they're in the end of a word (classic case: "that's good" v "that's gut". stupid german, haha).

Now, I have one comment for Linguist. I learned English at home watching the OC when I was 13. Then I moved to the US (that was 2 years ago) and pretty much learned English here. I'm sure you know what you're talking about, but I wouldn't just dixit that your brain undergoes "recession" when you hit puberty and then it has to cut on neuronal activity. Idk you know, I'm just sayin'. You're being kinda harsh on us teenagers.
day_cart   Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:11 pm GMT
The (often misquoted) 'critical period' hypothesis is a theory that you must acquire *at least one* language before a hypothetical cut-off point around 12 years or else you will never learn to speak any language fully functionally. It doesn't say you will never acquire native-like proficiency if you don't learn a second language before the critical period. It probably has no relevance at all to learning a second and more language. A lot of people refute it anyway.

Adults certainly can learn to speak with a native-like accent but it takes a lot of *determined* practice as you have to train your ear to hear sounds properly you normally 'don't hear' for your native language (not to mention your tongue to produce them). You also have to learn to mimic the rhythm and cadence of the language. Like Xie says, for most adults, it's not worth the effort to get it perfect.

Kids pick up a language 'faster' because they can devote all day to it, unlike adults. In fact they *have to* if they want to communicate with other kids. It's not so pressing for adults. And kids simply *must* learn to master a native accent perfectly or they face a life of hell from other kids for speaking 'funny'. So they also have great motivation.
K. T.   Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:26 pm GMT
"Adults certainly can learn to speak with a native-like accent but it takes a lot of *determined* practice as you have to train your ear to hear sounds properly you normally 'don't hear' for your native language (not to mention your tongue to produce them). You also have to learn to mimic the rhythm and cadence of the language. Like Xie says, for most adults, it's not worth the effort to get it perfect."

Some people can do this almost effortlessly. I think it gets much easier with exposure to multiple languages, or just plenty of exposure to the target language.


"A lot of people refute it anyway" As well they should since there are plenty of examples of people who have learned languages well as an adult.

"or they face a life of hell from other kids for speaking 'funny'. So they also have great motivation."

Even if a kid has a regional accent in English (Scottish or Southern English), they may change it to fit in.