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"What Do You Do With Languages?"
K.T, arigatô for that.
I was wrong about the word arigatô. According to wikipedia, the similarity between arigatô (thank you in Japanese) and obrigado (thank you in Portuguese) is a false cognate, aka, a coincidence as much as Portuguese is simmilar to Russian (lol).
I've heard a simmilar story about the Japanese word "miso", but it told like in a joke and I did not believe it.
Interesting though to know other Japanese words with real origin in Portuguese. The Indonesian language has also words coming from Portuguese.
"By the way, I didn't mean that the Portuguese were the third foreign nationality in Japan, rather that people who use Portuguese, i.e. Brazilians, are.
By the way, the Japanese immigration office homepage has versions in Chinese, Korean, Portuguese and Spanish in addition to English, which somehow shows the linguistic situation in Japan.
http://www.immi-moj.go.jp/"
I know. First were the Japanese who emigrated to Brazil in the turn of the XX century, mostly to São Paulo.
In the 1960's, Japan's economy took off so as to become a super-rich country. The Brazilians of Japanese background started to return to Japan. Together with them went Brazilians of other ethnic backgrounds.
Brazil was not that poor prior to the 1960's, but since then it started to fall down together with the whole Latin-America.
Nowadays, Japan is loosing competitiveness, but Brazil seems to be recovering. So, let's see what happens.
I've heard that many Japanese-Brazilians no longer speak Japanese. Their life in a kind of nervous, tropical city with high crime rates and huge social disparities such as Sao Paulo, made them different of the other Japanese people in Japan, and subject to unfair prejudice from the other Japanese.
Nevertheless, the Japanese-Brazilians contributed to make samba and specially bossa-nova extremely popular in Japan:-))
"I was wrong about the word arigatô. According to wikipedia, the similarity between arigatô (thank you in Japanese) and obrigado (thank you in Portuguese) is a false cognate, aka, a coincidence as much as Portuguese is simmilar to Russian (lol). "
Oi João!!
It's interesting that even linguists believe this theory and I asked about this theory to my professor in Japan, who RIGHT AWAY said that "arigatô" comes from the word "arigatai" (有り難い）, which means "something difficult to exist" or shows one's expression of surprise of a favor done towards oneself.
"Nevertheless, the Japanese-Brazilians contributed to make samba and specially bossa-nova extremely popular in Japan:-))"
Unfortunately this is the only way Brazilians are seen here: We're a musical and happy people. Most people who meet me have no idea what I'm doing here since I'm not a musician, soccer player (I HATE it) and neither married a Japanese girl to get my visa and enter Japan. Nevertheless thumbs up for "Lisa Ono", who helped popularizing Bossa Nova in Japan.
Um abraço
"I've heard that many Japanese-Brazilians no longer speak Japanese. Their life in a kind of nervous, tropical city with high crime rates and huge social disparities such as Sao Paulo, made them different of the other Japanese people in Japan, and subject to unfair prejudice from the other Japanese. "
You're right about that. Since the Brazilian-Japanese or "nikkeis" are the fourth generation of Japanese in Brazil they've been totally absorbed by the Brazilian society. However, many of the people I've met still keep that nasty "gaijin" attitude and refer to me as "Brasileiro" whereas I know more about Japanese language and culture than they'll ever do. It's interesting, though, that when such people come to Japan they find out they're not as "Japanese" as they used to think. I'm glad I never had identity problems...
As far as I know everybody until my great-grandparents is Brazilian.
"I don't know if you would be interested, but a man named Michael Erard
is doing a book on polyglots who speak more than six (I believe that's his magic number) languages. The book is called "Babel No More" and he's looking for polyglots to complete a survey. "
K.Tさん：
Sorry for the delay in replying. Of course I would be interested but wonder if 6 (broken) languages are allowed :) I mean, My German, English and Japanese are decent but I don't feel the same way about my Spanish of French, which are mostly PASSIVE languages that allow me to read and listen but I rarely use them for speaking (I'm not a beginner in these languages, though). The same can be said about my Dutch and Chinese, they're mainly for reading and I still need a dictionary to go through books. Right now I'm reading "Anne Frank's diary" in Dutch. I also found an audiobook of the diary to help me understand more spoken Dutch.
Tot ziens!!!
J.C. さん,
People who know six languages (written and spoken) seem to be his target group. However, if you get into the survey (it's long), you'll see that there are some questions related to level. There are also some personal questions...
I know what you mean about broken languages, perhaps they are languages that could be completed with some more exposure. Italian and Portuguese are my "broken languages", but I can speak Italian on a basic level if necessary.
It's interesting that we share some of the same languages, but then again, perhaps not. Except Dutch (also an interest of mine), all of the languages are big, practical languages
This year I'm working on modern Greek. Next year, I hope to learn more Mandarin. Mandarin is probably more valuable, but Greek is a great language.
"People who know six languages (written and spoken) seem to be his target group. However, if you get into the survey (it's long), you'll see that there are some questions related to level. There are also some personal questions..."
K.T.さん：
Interesting. In that case I would like to give it a shot. Do you have the website for this survey? I guess this would help me evaluate better my linguistic knowledge since I'm stuck in Japan and have nobody to talk to...
Well, at least I get to listen to Spanish at church since some members are from Spanish-speaking countries.
"I know what you mean about broken languages, perhaps they are languages that could be completed with some more exposure. Italian and Portuguese are my "broken languages", but I can speak Italian on a basic level if necessary. "
Wow, that makes us really 言語オタク！(笑). That's exactly what I mean!!
When I was studying for DELF I felt comfortable reading through the intermediate examination materials and when studied for DELE the basic and intermediate materials were easy for me. Any suggestions for taking my French and Spanish to the next level?
"It's interesting that we share some of the same languages, but then again, perhaps not. Except Dutch (also an interest of mine), all of the languages are big, practical languages "
Indeed. Apart from the "functional" languages I quoted I also studied Basic Korean, Italian, Russian (Still have the videos from NHK which I recorded in 1998) and Polish (Took an intensive course at UFRJ in 1993) that must be REVIVED before they die out forever :)
"This year I'm working on modern Greek. Next year, I hope to learn more Mandarin. Mandarin is probably more valuable, but Greek is a great language."
Greek...hmmm...I only studied classical Greek in order to read the New Testament but have a book from the エキスプレス series tempting me...
Is the biggest difference between Modern Greek and Classical Greek the simplified grammar in MG in addition to words of Turkish origin or is there something else?
ατε μαισ ε υμ αβρασο!
I heard about your interest in the survey for my book about hyperpolyglots, language superlearners, and language talents, titled Babel No More. There's a link to the survey at www.babelnomore.com, as well as links to a description of the survey, a description of the book, and an article I wrote for the New Scientist in 2005 about the science of hyperpolyglots. The book will be published in the US by Henry Holt & Co. and in Korea by Minumsa.
Thanks,
Michael
Hi Michael,
Thanks for taking the time to give a personal answer on this website and I'd like you to know that I have already taken the survey. It won't be difficult to spot a Brazilian born/raised in Brazil whose primary language is Japanese and lives in Japan. Anyway, I hope that my replies might help you unleash the secrets involved in multilingual learning. If you would like to have further discussions, I've sent you my e-mail through your website.
Cheers,
言語オタク！(笑).
Yes ！(笑). Oh well, if the description fits, own it.
"Any suggestions for taking my French and Spanish to the next level"
I imagine that your ear is good, but if you want to understand French pronunciation well, I recommend these materials:
Exercises in French Phonics (book by Francis W. Nachtmann)
Pronounce it Perfectly in French (cassettes or CDs with book)
I recommend listening on the internet to (at least the clip of the day) Télématin, the French morning show. You can choose a report (rubrique) that interests you from past shows, or you can watch the entire show. One of the speakers on the show, Jean-Paul Chapel, has the clearest French I have ever heard, but he’s only in the section on political matters most of the time.
For Spanish, perhaps you could look at the FSI book (free on the internet now), "From Spanish to Portuguese". It basically details how Spanish and Portuguese are different. For you, it would be working backwards, but it may be valuable. You can also buy DELE study books for the top levels, and look at practice tests for free on the internet.
You could also try Deutsche Welle in Spanish on the internet.
I watch Spanish TV (Both Univision and TV from Spain).
After I get the spoken language down, I start fishing for accent examples. (Youtube is a source, interviews, podcasts) I want to be able to understand a variety of accents, not just the literary or standard speech. But that's me. Some people stop at understanding standard speech.
Dialalang is the website, I think, where you can test your skills in European languages.
I'm not familiar with the エキスプレス (Express, I guess) series. I'll google it.
We've studied many of the same secondary languages. Yes, 言語オタク about sums it up!
I see you got a link already. Fantastic!
Als je Duits kunnen pratten, Nederlands word niet zo moelijk for jou. For mij, met Portugees als mijn geborte taal, Nederlands is zo moelijk!
Zoals met het verschil tussen Spaans en Portugees, sommige worden van het Nederlands zijn toch heel anders van Duits.
"ατε μαισ ε υμ αβρασο!"
Oh, that was sly, but I figured it out. Some Greek! Reminds me of when "Russian" was the fashion here.
Your good manners shine through your posts.
There is a Dutch thread in the multilingual lounge at How to learn any Language.com. That's not exactly the address, but it's close. I'm not sure if FX allows links. If he did, I'd link many things to his site. FX is the creator of the site. He speaks six languages now, I think.
"Als je Duits kunnen pratten, Nederlands word niet zo moelijk for jou. For mij, met Portugees als mijn geborte taal, Nederlands is zo moelijk! "
Gelijk heb je!! Nederlands is niet moeilijk for mij maar ik heb moeilijkheid om Nederlands juist te praten omdat wat ik denk dat is Nederlands is eigenlijk Duits...
Mein Nederlands leraar altijd zegde "Duits is geen Nederlands".
"Zoals met het verschil tussen Spaans en Portugees, sommige worden van het Nederlands zijn toch heel anders van Duits."
Nauwkeurig! Dat is de grootste uitdaging om Nederlands te leren.
Tot ziens!!
It's probably easy to let some German slip into your Dutch. I've done it at least once and will probably do it again sometime. Once I spoke Dutch and the Dutch person switched into German with me, lol.
One thing I noticed (and Parisien confirmed it) was that Dutch speakers may sound "English or American" in German, while Flemish speakers don't necessarily have the same secondary accent in German.
It makes me wonder how speaking multiple languages may influence one's accent acquisition in third and fourth languages.
I think I'll start a thread about tough languages to acquire because of how similar they are. Thanks for the inspiration.
Enough for now.
Tot ziens!
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