French has the most secondary speakers in the world?

Usuaire   Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:22 pm GMT
I read an article that say |French has the most secondary speakers in the world, and not as the first, as all linguists say.

The table below shows that French has a commanding lead against other languages with more native speakers

1. French (190 million)
2. English (150 million)
3. Russian (125 million)
4. Portuguese (28 million)
5. Arabic (21 million)
6. Spanish (20 million)
7. Chinese (20 million)
8. German (9 million)
9. Japanese (8 million)
Usuaire   Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:23 pm GMT
I read an article that say |French has the most secondary speakers in the world, and not as the first, as all linguists say.

The table below shows that French has a commanding lead against other languages with more native speakers

1. French (190 million)
2. English (150 million)
3. Russian (125 million)
4. Portuguese (28 million)
5. Arabic (21 million)
6. Spanish (20 million)
7. Chinese (20 million)
8. German (9 million)
9. Japanese (8 million)

http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/languages.htm
Guest   Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:20 pm GMT
This list is a completely shit. This list is completely false. I think that Francophonie paid very well to George Weber, because NOTHING of this list is true.

For example,

1. English: there are at least 500 million to 1 billion of secondary speakers. Only in India and China are more than 150.

2. Spanish: 20 million of secondary speakers are only in USA. If you add the secondary speakers of Brazil, European Union, Philippines, Morocco, etc perhaps you need to add 80 million more.

3. Mandarin Chinese: all people that study Chinese in the SAME China are more than 200 million. A lot of people in Tibet, Hong-Kong or Shanghai don't speak Mandarin as mother tongue and they need to study it. If you include all people that study this language around the world, there are 100 million more.

4. French: is the mother tongue of 75-77 million people. There are other 50 million that have a good knowledge. So, some 125-128 million. The SAME Francophonie say that there are 200 million of French speakers around the World considering all people that studied this language one year at school. So, there are 125 of secondary speakers of French, no more.

http://www.espacefrancais.com/francophonie/index.php?itemid=131
Visitor   Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:39 am GMT
<< 2. Spanish: 20 million of secondary speakers are only in USA. If you add the secondary speakers of Brazil, European Union, Philippines, Morocco, etc perhaps you need to add 80 million more. >>

You're list is completely shit! The speakers in those countries are not secondary speakers but to them Spanish is just an acquired tongue.

Do you know what a secondary speaker? A secondary speaker of a language are those who live in a country whose official language is its former colonial master like in the case of Francophone Africans and Anglo-Africans. French and English are their near native language because they use it on a regular basis.

Here's Wikipedia's definition of second language:
*********************************************************
In pedagogy, a distinction is often made between 'second language' and foreign language, the latter being learned for use in an area where that language is not generally spoken. Arguably, English in countries such as India, Pakistan, the Scandinavian countries, and the Netherlands can be considered a second language for many of its speakers, because they learn it young, speak it fluently, and use it regularly, indeed in southern Asia it is the official language of the courts, government and business.

The same can be said for French in the Arab Maghreb Union, except for Libya, although--like for English in the Scandinavian countries and the Netherlands--French is not an official language in any of these Arabic-speaking countries. The same can also be said for the rest of sub-Saharan Francophone Africa, except that, in all Francophone sub-Saharan African countries other than Mauritania and Mauritius, French is an official language. In the post-Soviet states states such as Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan and Kazahstan, Russian can be considered a second language, and there are large Russophone communities there.

In China, however, English would be considered a foreign language due to the lack of a number of characteristics, such as historical links, media, opportunities for use, similar vocabulary, and common script. Although Egypt, like most of the other Arab Persian Gulf states, was once a British colony, English, like in China, is a foreign language in Egypt (see Education in Egypt).

French would be considered a foreign language in Romania, Lebanon and Moldova as well. This is despite Romanian and French being romance languages (unlike Chinese and English, which come from two different language families). This is also despite Romania and Moldova being the only two countries in the world where Romanian is an official language at the federal level, Romania's historical links to France, and both Roumanophone countries' membership in the Francophonie. For Lebanon, French would be considered a foreign language, even though most of its universities operate in either that language or English, French is an administrative language and--like Romania--Lebanon has historical ties to France and is a Francophonie member state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_language
*********************************************************

It's clear that USA, Brazil, European Union, etc. were not colonized by Spain therefore they are not secondary speakers of Spanish but I doubt if they are really that proficient in Spanish.

<< 4. French: is the mother tongue of 75-77 million people. There are other 50 million that have a good knowledge. So, some 125-128 million. The SAME Francophonie say that there are 200 million of French speakers around the World considering all people that studied this language one year at school. So, there are 125 of secondary speakers of French, no more. >>

This is bullshit. The number of native speaker of French false between 80-130 million and it includes the first native speakers in Africa. The secondary speakers according to George Weber is 190 milliion and that is in 1999 by now it's probably it's 250 million and most of them are in Francophone Africa and it outnumbers the secondary speakers in of English in Africa. The total speakers is around 500 million.

You want a proof written by a Francophone and a Briton? Here they are:

http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/francophonie/francophonie.htm

http://www.globallanguageexpert.co.uk/?french,7

It's obvious that the figure about the number of Spanish speakers that you always present here and in Wikipedia is exaggerated. Pure imaginations of the Hispanics.
---   Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:16 pm GMT
Most Widely Spoken Languagesin the World

Mandarin Chinese tops the list of most popular world languages, with over a billion speakers. English trails in second place, with just over 500 million speakers. This data includes all speakers of the languages, not only native speakers.

Language Approx. numberof speakers

1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000

2. English 514,000,000

3. Hindustani1 496,000,000

4. Spanish 425,000,000

5. Russian 275,000,000

6. Arabic 256,000,000

7. Bengali 215,000,000

8. Portuguese 194,000,000

9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000

10. French 129,000,000


Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources.
Boyntonville bumpkin   Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:29 pm GMT
<<A secondary speaker of a language are those who live in a country whose official language is its former colonial master like in the case of Francophone Africans and Anglo-Africans. French and English are their near native language because they use it on a regular basis.>>

By this definition, shouldn't many people living in the US (original 13 colonies + NW territory (really the midwest) + Northwest US) and much/all of Canada, Australia, NZ, Ireland, etc. be considered secondary speakers of English? Perhaps these folks number about 200,000,000+, plus you have to add in the west indies, and parts of Africa.
Guest   Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:39 pm GMT
Well, there are a lot of things false:

1. <<It's clear that USA, Brazil, European Union, etc. were not colonized by Spain therefore they are not secondary speakers of Spanish but I doubt if they are really that proficient in Spanish.>>

False. Half of USA was colonized by Spain. Have you read the history of California or Florida? So, you can't say that Spanish is a foreign language in Florida or New Mexico. It is a second language there (or even a first one).

If you don't know, Brazil, Philippines, Morocco, and several countries of the European Union were also parts of Spain too. So, according to Wikipedia can be considered second language in some of them.

2. As you can see in the list of Ethnologue, there are 129 million of real French speakers. The Francophonie doesn't dare to give high numbers. The Francophonie gives the number of 200 million of speakers (including all people that know a little of French). No more.

So, the webpage written by a French Canadian is not serious. He writes:
<<On peut croire que ce nombre de 500 millions touche tout ceux qui, d'une façon ou d'une autre, peuvent être en contact avec le monde francophone.>>

He says that there are 500 million people that are "in contact with" French. And what? Well, that is incredible. I can say that all Americans are "in contact with Spanish. And I can add Brazil too. So, there are also other 500 million (USA+Brazil) "in contact with" Spanish language.

THERE ARE ONLY 129 MILLION OF REAL FRENCH SPEAKERS!!!!!!!!
Visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:29 am GMT
The list presented by ethnologue are have lots of errors and discrepancies. Don't you know that those who conducted the survey were entirely hispanics and Hispanidad paid ethnologue to come out with information in favor of Spanish. Now I know the reason why there are more Spanish speakers than English and Hindi speakers according to ethnologue.

Ethologue are pure lies made by hispanics.
Visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:59 am GMT
<<Visitor Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:29 am GMT
The list presented by ethnologue are have lots of errors and discrepancies. Don't you know that those who conducted the survey were entirely hispanics and Hispanidad paid ethnologue to come out with information in favor of Spanish. Now I know the reason why there are more Spanish speakers than English and Hindi speakers according to ethnologue.

Ethologue are pure lies made by hispanics>>

Ethnologue, 13th Edition, Barbara F.Grimes, Editor.

Visitor, this woman is anglosaxon, not Hispanic/ I really think you ha a big problem in you brain. But if you want to believe that the French is the number one, It is ok. I really don't care.
Visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:09 am GMT
<< As you can see in the list of Ethnologue, there are 129 million of real French speakers. The Francophonie doesn't dare to give high numbers. The Francophonie gives the number of 200 million of speakers (including all people that know a little of French). No more. >>

READ THIS STUPID AND STOP INSISTING ABOUT THE LIES OF EHNOLOGUE RUN BY HISPANICS AND HISPANIDAD.

Cependant, bien qu'ils soient partout minoritaires, il faut dénombrer également les locuteurs du français langue maternelle dans les différents autres pays francophones répartis surtout en Afrique et en Océanie, mais présents aussi aux Antilles et aux États-Unis. Si l'on compte les véritables francophones d'Afrique (22 États), des Antilles et des États-Unis (1,7 million), d'Océanie, on compterait environ 110 millions de locuteurs francophones.

However, although they are a minority everywhere, we must also count the speakers of french language in the various other distributed mainly francophone countries in Africa and Oceania, but also present in the Caribbean and the United States. If we count the actual French-speaking Africa (22 states), the Caribbean and the United States (1.7 million), Oceania, there are approximately 110 million French speakers.


Selon le Conseil économique et social de Paris, le nombre des "francophones" aurait atteint même les 500 millions en l'an 2000. Mais il ne s'agit là que d'estimations, car il n'existe pas encore d'instruments de mesure scientifique en ce domaine. On peut croire que ce nombre de 500 millions touche tout ceux qui, d'une façon ou d'une autre, peuvent être en contact avec le monde francophone.

According to the Economic and Social Council of Paris, the number of "French" have reached even 500 million in 2000. But this is only an estimate since there is still no scientific measurement instruments in this field. One can believe that this number of 500 million touches all those who in one way or another, may be in contact with the Francophone world.

http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/francophonie/francophonie.htm


French is today spoken by 65 to 130 million people around the world as a native language, and by about 190 to 600 million people as a second or third language, with significant number of speakers in 54 countries. Most native speakers of the language live in France, where the language originated. The rest live in Canada, Belgium and Switzerland. It is an official language in 29 countries, language of all United Nations agencies and a large number of international organizations.

http://www.globallanguageexpert.co.uk/?french,7


<< Language Approx. numberof speakers

1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000

2. English 514,000,000

3. Hindustani1 496,000,000

4. Spanish 425,000,000

5. Russian 275,000,000

6. Arabic 256,000,000

7. Bengali 215,000,000

8. Portuguese 194,000,000

9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000

10. French 129,000,000


Source: Ethnologue, 13th Edition, and other sources. >>

This is bullshit how can Spanish have more secondary speakers than French when they are just mostly Catalan, Galician, Basque, Quechua, Ayamara, Guarani, Quiche, and Nahuatl speakers?

If you're gonna sum their total it's just around 20 million far less than the 190 million secondary speakers of French in Africa. George Weber is right and his report is accurate. Far more accurate than the table presented by Ethnologue run by Hispanidad whose office is in Texas near the Mexican border.

According to many sources Hindi has 425 million native speakers, English 350-380 million while Spanish just around 320 million. Only Ethnologue came up with a higher figure for Spanish than Hindi and English.

LET US MAKE A COMPARISON BETWEEN FRENCH AND SPANISH.

Nearly 1/5 of non-Francophone Europeans say they know French, according to http://www.cpfalta.ab.ca/Learning/whyfrench.htm.

That is 830.4 million Europeans minus 67 million francophones from France, Switzerland and Belgium is 763.4 million non-francophone Europeans.

763.4 million of non-francophone Europeans multiplied by 1/5 is 152.68 million French speaking non-francophone Europeans.

110 million native French speakers + 190 million (as of 1999) secondary French speakers + 152.68 million French speaking non-francophone Europeans is 452.68 million. Now if we add the non-native speakers of French in Anglo-America, Latin America, Non-Francophone Africa, Asia, and Australasia estimated at around let's say 100 million is 552.68 million.

As for Spanish: 320 million native speakers in Spain and Hispanic America + 30 million secondary Spanish speakers form Catalan, Galician, Basque, Quechua, Ayamara, Guarani, Quiche, and Nahuatl communities + 30 million non-native speakers all over the world is 380 million.

So, there's a truth behind the 500 million estimate of total number of French speakers.
visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:16 am GMT
Whatever you want.
Visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:39 am GMT
READ THIS STUPID AND STOP INSISTING ABOUT THE LIES OF EHNOLOGUE RUN BY French Fanatic people:

Written by french:
http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/francophonie/francophonie.htm

http://www.cpfalta.ab.ca/Learning/whyfrench.htm.

Please Dont give us french websites. They Do not credibility.

Your http://www.globallanguageexpert.co.uk/?french,7 now About Spanish:

Between 322 and 400 million people speak Spanish (French only 65 to 130 million, according to frenchsite) as a native language making it the third most spoken language by total number of speakers (after English and Chinese, so French 600 milions??. If it it is the third language after Chinese and English, where is French) and the world's second most-spoken language by native speakers (after Mandarin Chinese).

Today, Spanish is an official language of Spain, most Latin American countries and Equatorial Guinea; 21 nations speak it as their primary language. Spanish is one of six official languages of the United Nations. Spanish is also the second most-widely spoken language in the United States and the most popular studied foreign language in schools and universities in the United States.

No more coments, but yes French is the msot spoken language in the world.
Visitor   Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:50 am GMT
Canadian Website about Spanish in Canada.

Hola Canadá! Spanish Is Third Most Spoken Language


Jack Jedwab and Victor Armony

There has been an important growth of second language Spanish speakers in Canada.


While it remains well behind English and French, in 2006 Spanish has became the third most widely spoken language in Canada and has now earned the title of Canada’s most important non-official language. It is worth noting that, appropriately, Chinese is not considered one language and the census lists Mandarin and Cantonese separately.
Census data show that Spanish enjoyed a growth rate of 50 per cent over a decade, rising from half-a-million to three-quarter of a million (758,000 or 2.4 per cent of the total population). In 2006, some 345,000 persons in Canada reported that their mother tongue/first language was Spanish. However, most Canadians that reported an ability to speak Spanish did so as a second language. In 2006 some 400,000 Canadians spoke Spanish as a second language compared with 277,000 a decade earlier.


Although these numbers no doubt pale by comparison with the numbers of Spanish speakers in the United States, the growth of Spanish in Canada and the transmission of the language merit greater attention from researchers and policy-makers. The growing importance of geo-political ties between Canada and the Americas may make knowledge of Spanish in Canada an increasingly valuable asset. Much like the United States, the increasing number of Spanish-speakers in Canada is primarily attributable to continued immigration from source countries where Spanish is the principal language. Amongst those persons whose first language is Spanish, nearly three-quarters were born outside of Canada. The majority of these immigrants arrived after 1991 (56 per cent). Half of the Canadians reporting that they speak Spanish reside in the cities of Montréal and Toronto.

Where Canada’s Spanish speakers live


Given the geographic concentration of French in Québec and English elsewhere in Canada, it is interesting to observe the patterns of acquisition of English and French by Spanish speakers. Not surprisingly, the first official language spoken by Canadians whose mother tongue is Spanish varies significantly according to the regional language composition. Hence, nearly two in three Canadians whose mother tongue is Spanish report English as their first official language spoken.


The language divide is reflected in the extent to which the first official language spoken of the mother-tongue-Spanish population is overwhelmingly English in cities outside the province of Québec and predominantly French (frequently along with English) in urban centres within Québec. Over the past two decades, the fastest growing non-official language in the province of Québec was Spanish. Montréal is home to some 200 000 persons that speak Spanish and just under half that number report that it is their principal language. Some 20 000 Montrealers whose mother tongue is Spanish are Canadian-born and not surprisingly the vast majority-some 75 000 were foreign-born. A narrow majority of Montrealers (51 per cent) whose mother tongue is Spanish report an ability to speak three languages (Spanish, English and French), 40 per cent speak Spanish and French and another five per cent speak Spanish and English only.

Spanish use in Canadian homes


Regarding the language most frequently used at home, Spanish continues to be the first choice amongst the majority of those for whom it is the first language they learned. There is, however, noteworthy variation in the extent to which it is most often spoken at home across cities. Retention of Spanish in the home is highest in the cities in the province of Québec.


Montréal followed by Gatineau and Toronto had the highest rate of use of Spanish most often in the home. The 2006 census data suggest that Montréal and Gatineau have the highest rates of language retention for those under the age of 20. In effect, youth whose mother tongue is Spanish and who operate in majority French language areas are more likely to speak Spanish most often at home than is the case for those who operate in majority English language areas. When looking at individuals that are part of the same age group, the retention of Spanish in the home is still highest in Montréal and the margin is even wider when considering the presence of Spanish spoken in the home along with an official language.

Spanish ‘Trilinguals’: From the School to the Workplace


What impact does schooling have on the acquisition of English and French by youth whose mother tongue is Spanish? In the initial years of elementary school (age 5-9), the 2006 census reveals that the population with Spanish mother tongue is most likely to acquire both official languages in the city of Ottawa, followed by Gatineau, with Montréal a distant third when it comes to trilingualism. In Toronto the per centage of knowing English and French with Spanish mother tongue is a mere six per cent and in Vancouver it is approximately 12 per cent. In the age group 10-14, the reported level of knowledge of English and French amongst the group of Spanish mother tongue rises to forty per cent or greater in Montréal (40 per cent), Gatineau (46.9 per cent), Ottawa (47.5 per cent), Toronto (11 per cent) and Vancouver (17 per cent).


However, an important change in the pattern emerges between the 10-14 and 15-19 cohorts as the per centage of bilinguals jumps substantially in Montréal (from 40 to 63.3 per cent) while decreasing in Ottawa and Gatineau, remaining stable in Toronto and rising slightly in Vancouver. When examining language learning amongst the Canadian-born whose mother tongue is Spanish, one observes a substantial increase in the per centage that know English and French between the under 15 years of age and the 15-24 group. The biggest jump is in Montréal (24.4 to 75.4 per cent), likely a testimony to the degree of contact with both English and French as youth enter the workplace.

Conclusion


At its current rate of growth the number of persons that speak Spanish in Canada will inevitably pass the one million mark with the 2011 census. Census data reveals that many Canadians are able to learn three languages as evidenced by the number of persons whose first language is Spanish and also possesses knowledge of English and French. In Montréal as well as in the National Capital Region these “trilinguals” represent a potentially important resource in bridging language divides within Canada as well as between Canada and the Americas.

Jack Jedwab is the Executive Director of the Association for Canadian Studies.

Victor Armony is the Director of UQAM’s Observatory of the Americas and Editor-in-Chief of the Canadian Journal of Latin American and Caribbean Studies.

http://www.focal.ca/publications/focalpoint/fp0509/?lang=e&article=article8

As you see I odn't choose Spanish or Hispanic websites.

Here you have another Anglosaxonwebsite:

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Spanish_Language
Guest   Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:59 am GMT
<< Please Dont give us french websites. They Do not credibility. >>

It's more credible than the websites made by Hispanics by giving a 400+ million for Spanish. That's totally absurd.

If you don't want French website, then why do you keep on insisting the 170 million total speakers made by OIF?

http://www.cpfalta.ab.ca/Learning/whyfrench.htm is not a French website, it was made by an Anglo-Canadian.

<< Between 322 and 400 million people speak Spanish (French only 65 to 130 million, according to frenchsite) as a native language making it the third most spoken language by total number of speakers (after English and Chinese, so French 600 milions??. If it it is the third language after Chinese and English, where is French) and the world's second most-spoken language by native speakers (after Mandarin Chinese). >>

Make it complete. It should have been this way:

French is today spoken by 65 to 130 million people around the world as a native language, and by about 190 to 600 million people as a second or third language, with significant number of speakers in 54 countries. Most native speakers of the language live in France, where the language originated. The rest live in Canada, Belgium and Switzerland. It is an official language in 29 countries, language of all United Nations agencies and a large number of international organizations.


SPANISH

Between 322 and 400 million people speak Spanish as a native language making it the third most spoken language by total number of speakers (after English and Chinese) and the world's second most-spoken language by native speakers (after Mandarin Chinese). Today, Spanish is an official language of Spain, most Latin American countries and Equatorial Guinea; 21 nations speak it as their primary language. Spanish is one of six official languages of the United Nations. Spanish is also the second most-widely spoken language in the United States and the most popular studied foreign language in schools and universities in the United States.

http://www.globallanguageexpert.co.uk/?spanish,10

ANALYZE:

French today spoken by 65 to 130 million people around the world as a native language, and by about 190 to 600 million people as a second or third language, with significant number of speakers in 54 countries
VERSUS
Between 322 and 400 million people speak Spanish as a native language making it the third most spoken language by total number of speakers (after English and Chinese) and the world's second most-spoken language by native speakers (after Mandarin Chinese)

It (French) is an official language in 29 countries, language of all United Nations agencies and a large number of international organizations.
VERSUS
21 nations speak it (Spanish) as their primary language. Spanish is one of six official languages of the United Nations.
Guest   Mon Jul 20, 2009 12:06 pm GMT
<< Canadian Website about Spanish in Canada.

Hola Canadá! Spanish Is Third Most Spoken Language


Jack Jedwab and Victor Armony

There has been an important growth of second language Spanish speakers in Canada >>

LIAR!

Language composition by Home language

The following are the top twenty languages spoken as a home language in Canada, shown as a percentage of total single responses (just over 98% of Canadians use a single language as their "home language", and slightly under 2% use more than one language at home):[1]

1. English 20,584,775 (67.1%)
2. French 6,608,125 (19.1%)
3. Chinese[2] 790,035 (2.6%)
4. Punjabi 500,000 (1.0%)
5. Spanish 209,955 (0.7%)
6. Italian 170,330 (0.6%)
7. Dutch 159,440 (0.6%)
8. Ukrainian 148,090 (0.5%)
9. Arabic 144,745 (0.5%)
10. German 128,350 (0.4%)
11. Tagalog 119,345 (0.4%)
12. Vietnamese 111,440 (0.4%)
13. Portuguese 103,875 (0.3%)
14. Urdu 102,805 (0.3%)
15. Polish 101,575 (0.3%)
16. Korean 101,500 (0.3%)
17. Persian 97,220 (0.3%)
18. Russian 93,805 (0.3%)
19. Tamil 92,680 (0.3%)
20. Greek 55,100 (0.2%)
21. Gujarati 52,715 (0.2%)


Allo Colombia and Peru! Because the people of those Hispanic countries will have French as their secondary language. And in Brazil, Spanish will be overcome by French!

Le très net déclin du français langue seconde ou étrangère, qui avait commencé dans les années soixante, semble avoir été stoppé. Certains pays d'Europe (Finlande, Irlande, Norvège, Suède, Autriche, Bulgarie, etc.), du Proche-Orient (Égypte, Turquie, Israël, Émirats arabes unis, etc.) et d'Amérique (Brésil, Colombie, Pérou, États-Unis, Canada) connaissent présentement une très nette augmentation des élèves du français langue seconde ou étrangère.

The very steep decline in the french foreign or second language, which began in the sixties seems to have been stopped. Some European countries (Finland, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Austria, Bulgaria, etc..), The Near East (Egypt, Turkey, Israel, United Arab Emirates, etc..) And America (Brazil, Colombia, Peru , United States, Canada) currently experiencing a sharp increase in students of french foreign or second language.

http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/francophonie/francophonie.htm