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The difference(s) between Old Dutch and Old Frankish
1.Burgundian belongs to East Germanic branch( Goths,Vandals,Lombards,Rugians), Middle High German belongs to Elbe Germanic or Irminonic subbranch of West Germanic branch ( Old Frankish (or Old "Dutch" belongs to Weser Rhine Germanic or Ingvaeonic subbranch and ,Old Saxon,Anglian,Old Frisian belongs to North Sea Germanic subbranch of West Germanic.) East Germanic branch is more related to North Germanic.
Burgundians formerly lived in Scandinavia ( for example:Bornholm-Borgundarholm in Old Norse),later they migrated to the East from Elbe river and finally-to territory now called "Bourgogne" (Southeastern France).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germanic_languages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irminones
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundians
Differences between Burgundian and Old High German:
Gundahar-O.H.G Gunther-O.N. Gunnarr
2."Kudrun (auch Gudrun oder Gudrunsage) ist ein anonymes strophisches Heldenepos in mittelhochdeutscher Sprache und somit das zweite große Heldenepos der mittelalterlichen deutschen Literatur neben dem Nibelungenlied."
http://de.academic.ru/dic.nsf/dewiki/552561
Guðrún is one of the most frequently given female names in Iceland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gu%C3%B0r%C3%BAn
"Guda, Gudrun/Gudrune, Gudula f.
OHG elements mean "fight, battle"+"secret." Rare today, the name became popular in the 1800s."
http://german.about.com/library/blvornamen06.htm
Female name Gudrun is not known in modern Dutch.
Sorry,name Gudrun is known in Dutch ,but it is borrowed from Scandinavian countries not long ago ( as Bjorn, Olaf,Bjarne,Ingrid,Astrid and so on).
I thought Lombardic was categorized as a West Germanic language, or at least as an uncertain classification.
"Groups identified as East Germanic tribes include:
Bastarnae
Burgundians
Goths
Thervings
Greuthungs
Visigoths
Ostrogoths
Crimean Goths
Gepids
Rugians
Scirii
Vandals
Heruli
Lombards
The East Germanic languages are contrasted with North and West Germanic. However, the East Germanic languages shared many characteristics with North Germanic, perhaps because of the later migration date.
All the East Germanic languages are extinct as living languages. However, there have been recent attempts by Germanic tribal polytheists to reconstruct a form of neo-Gothic as a common community language.[citation needed] This is primarily based on the academic publications of a small number of scholars who have studied what remains of the written records of the Gothic dialects within Italia, the Iberian peninsula, and old Anatolia. Whether their efforts will succeed has yet to be proven conclusively since the reconstruction of elder Germanic tribal belief systems is a rather young research field, dating by most accounts to the last quarter of the 19th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germanic_tribes
<<I thought Lombardic was categorized as a West Germanic language, or at least as an uncertain classification. >>
If memory serves, it was originally classified as Low German, akin to Old Saxon, Old English and the like, but due to participation in the High German sound shift it's been re-classed.
My only concern with this is that it might have deedly (actually) been a Low Saxon variety with altered phonology due to influence from neighboring Southern German dialects. Based on where maps show their homeland to be, the Low German connection would seem to hold true.
"LOMBARDIC LANGUAGE
Lombardic or Langobardic is the extinct language of the Lombards (Langobardi), the Germanic speaking people who settled in Italy in the 6th century. The language declined from the 7th century, but may have been in scattered use until as late as ca. AD 1000. The language is only preserved fragmentarily, the main evidence being individual words quoted in Latin texts.
In the absence of Lombardic texts, it is not possible to draw any conclusions about the language's morphology and syntax. The genetic classification is necessarily based entirely on phonology. Since there is evidence that Lombardic participated in, and indeed shows some of the earliest evidence for, the High German consonant shift, it is classified as an Elbe Germanic or Upper German dialect. The Historia Langobardorum of Paulus Diaconus mentions a duke Zaban of 574, showing /t/ shifted to /ts/. The term stolesazo (the second element is cognate with English seat) in the Edictum Rothari shows the same shift. Many names in the Lombard royal families show shifted consonants, particularly /p/ < /b/ in the following name components:
pert < bert: Aripert, Godepert
perg < berg: Perctarit, Gundperga (daughter of King Agilulf)
prand < brand: Ansprand, Liutprand
It has been suggested that the consonant shift may even have originated in Lombardic.[citation needed]
Formerly, Lombardic was classified as Ingaevonian (North Sea Germanic), but this classification is considered obsolete. The classification of Lombardic within the Germanic languages may be complicated by issues of orthography. According to Hutterer (1999) it is close to Old Saxon. Tacitus counts them among the Suebi. Paulus Diaconus (8th century) and the Codex Gothanus (9th century) wrote that the Lombards were ultimately of Scandinavian origin, having settled at the Elbe before entering Italy.
Longbardic fragments are preserved in runic inscriptions, in Latinized forms, and in transcriptions influenced by Old High German orthography."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lombardic_language
I believe all Germanic peoples originally came from their homeland or urheimat somewhere in southern Scandinavia and Denmark, known as the "womb of peoples" and then spread from there.
So there isn't a Southern Germanic category? I guess Bavarian and Swiss German would still be in the Western branch then?
I think that the Germanics and Finnish are genetically related, but the Swedish were IEuropeanised and the Finnish kept their pre-IE languages, pretty much like the Iberians vs Basques.
rep,
> This is primarily based on the academic publications of a small number of scholars who have studied what remains of the written records of the Gothic dialects within Italia, the Iberian peninsula, and old Anatolia. <
Gothic / Hokkienese (in peh-oe-ji):
Illa (male name) / inn-a, iⁿ-a (Chinchewese: 1. baby 2. male name)
Changchewese: inn-a, iⁿ-a (baby)
Amoyese: enn-a, eⁿ-a (baby)
nasalization = nn = ( )ⁿ
Genetic drift goes
Germanic => (one way) Scandinavian <=> Finnish, where UrFinnisch = Asiatic (probably some form of Hokkienese)
> In the absence of Lombardic texts, it is not possible to draw any conclusions about the language's morphology and syntax. The genetic classification is necessarily based entirely on phonology. <
Italian / Hokkienese:
bellezza, bello / be (beautiful), be-lo (agate), siong-be (famous)
The words "beautiful" and "agate" in Lombardic may be as similar as "bellezza" and "bello".
minstrel,
Lombardic was Germanic language,not Romance.' Beautiful' in Lombardic was 'scona" or similar word.
rep, please learn what you are talking about. Lombardic is a romance language.
Correct.
minstrel, let this be a lesson for you :p
The Romance language hight "Lombard" is deedly named after the germanic conquerors who spoke Lombardic up until the 9th century, which had a profound impact on the development of Lombard, similar to that of Frankish on Old French.
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