Evidences of Hispanic Manipulation of Wikimedia/pedia

Visitor   Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:14 am GMT
Hispanophone world map

I'm not working on this map anymore. Most of the misunderstanding come from the unclear definition of "native speaker", please work to improve the legend before to ask anyone to improve the map. Yug (talk) 21:37, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

* See Image talk:Map-Hispanophone World.png#1/ Improve the legend first ! for more.

[edit] Request

Hi! I saw your picture for the Hispanophone world map. Could you make the entire archipelago light green, please? You just highlighted only Luzon. Thanks. --w:User:Christopher Sundita 00:56, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Re the same map, I noticed some of the comments had slightly odd grammar (and "enter" doesn't mean the same as French "entre" :) so I took the liberty of fixing it. Hairy Dude 18:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Re the same map. I've been to Brazil and found that the entire population can understand Spanish and knows how to speak in a manner to be understood by a Spanish speaker. This suggests to me at least some shading of light color recognizing this fact. (As well as Portugal itself. Perhaps Macau is too big of a stretch now since it has been fully taken over by the Chinese to become their Monte Carlo/Las Vegas equivalent).

Also, for the same map, I'd suggest that New York City has a large population of Spanish speakers and should be recognized. Little Colombia in Queens, New York City comes to mind as a place where even the billboards are in Spanish everywhere.

Also, for the Francophone map, the US state of Louisiana officialy recognizes French as a secondary language. The entire state probably deserves the light shade of color indicating so, similar to New Mexico for the Spanish map although not with the dark color that NM deserves. (although the small square is there, which is good)

You are greatly mistaken about Brazilians knowing Spanish. The percentage of the Brazilian population that can actually speak proper Spanish or have any formal training in that language is at best insignificant. Portuguese and Spanish happen to be however two very closely related languages that are largely mutually intelligible. Most likely, when you visited Brazil and spoke Spanish to the natives, they either replied in Brazilian Portuguese properly or in some form of spontaneous (i.e. unsystematic and not formally learned) Spanish-Portuguese mix like portuñol, but you probably couldn't tell the difference and mistook what they were saying as being Spanish. 200.177.11.126 22:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish language Map

Hi! I'm writing you because there have been some complains regarding Image:Map-Hispanophone World.png, concerning the northwestern Brazil. Please, take a look at the talk page. Thank you very much, Mariano 07:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

We all know this map is Aztlan-mongering bullshit. IP Address 07:04, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this construction opinion. Improve the legend is an other way use by peaceful and efficient people. Yug (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 1/ Improve the legend first !

Hello, I'm the former maker of this map. This map was [is?] a disputed one because of its unclear legend, and the unclear definition of "Native speaker", and "Hispanophone [native] country" / "Heavy hispanophone minority" and "Important minority". This had [have?] to be clearified before to work on this map, otherway the map will change every week. I'm not able to do this work, but I think :

* "Hispanophone [native] country" : More than 50% are spanish native speakers, dreaming using spanish, living using spanish, etc.
* "Heavy hispanophone minority" : between 20% to 50% of the country people are spanish native speakers, dreaming using spanish, living using spanish, etc.
* "Important minority" : about 10-20 % of native speakers.
* About 5% it's a community like many others in the country.

After, if we admit a more clear legend like this, or an other legend, we can work (almost) peacefully on this map. Who is able to choice this, because We have to improve the legend first. Yug (talk) 17:27, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 2/ Collect opinions => facts ?

In a second time, we have to collect opinions to obtain accurate facts.

* Collect these opinions from en:Talk:Spanish_language, and copy/past in the section :

* Section and information about the map, collected to [[:commons:Image talk:Map-Hispanophone World.png]] ~~~~

[edit] Evident countries

List shows countries obviously spanish speaker and fully (more than 80-90%) spanish speaker :

* Spain, Chile, Argentina, Mexico, Cuba, Peru, Colombia, Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Ecuador.... <to be completed>

The Falkland Islands are colored green as though they are a part of Argentina and use Spanish as the official language. This, however, is not the case, and the Falklands should not be included on this map (for the sake of accuracy... this shouldn't be a political issue). --72.76.157.163 02:28, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Northern Brazil opinions

I noticed that the world map featured in the article has the western half of the northern Brazilian state of Amazonas colored in light green, indicating a "sizeable minority of Spanish speakers". That is factually inaccurate and should be corrected. The aforementioned colored area is actually a very sparsely populated region of Brazil inhabited mostly by native Amerindians or isolated rural communities of mixed European/Amerindian descent. Most people in those communities are native speakers of either some Amerindian language or some form of uneducated Brazilian vernacular (a semi-creolized version of standard Brazilian Portuguese). One would be hard-pressed to find even a handful of people in that area with the ability to speak and/or understand Spanish, much less a "sizeable minority" of native Spanish speakers. 00:18, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I never noticed before! I'll contact the creator of the Map for references. Mariano(t/c) 07:04, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paraguay opinions

According to Demographics of Paraguay, only 75% of the population speaks Spanish, as opposed to the 90% that speak Guarani; thereby meaning that Spanish is not "the main language" in the country. Because of this shouldn't Paraguay be in green instead of dark green on the map? --Krsont 20:09, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, I doubt only 75% speaks Spanish, and Spanish is actually more official than guaraní oregarding official papers. Mariano(t/c) 09:54, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Philipines opinions
[edit] Turkey and Israel opinions

* Turkey 150,000 of 60 000 000.
* Israel 100,000 of 7 005 400 israelinas = 1 spanish speaker for 70 isralelians. See en:Israel

0,25% and 1,43% on each case. Hardly significant minorities. --JorgeGG 18:08, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Morocco opinions
[edit] United States of America opinions

Why an earth is the entire USA Higlighted in Light Green. Over 80% of the Spanish Speaking Population is Concentrated in the Handful of States. I was living in Montana, and the Spanish Speaking Population is a Mere 1-2%, a large % of these are "Seasonal Workers".

As I have said Numerous times, the Majority of US-Born Hispanics are English Dominant. Spanish in the USA, is Pre-dominantly an Immigrant language concentrated in Immigrant Hubs/Enclaves/Regions (EG - US South West/South Florida Etc...).

US-States (Hispanic Population Via States) - NOTE "US-Hispanic" Does not = Spanish Speaker)

Hispanic Popualtion in the United States:

New Mexico (823,352) 43.27% California (12,442,626) 34.72% Texas (7,781,211) 34.63% Arizona (1,608,698) 28.03% Nevada (531,929) 22.80% Colorado (878,803) 19.10% Florida (3,304,832) 19.01% New York (3,076,697) 15.96% New Jersey (1,294,422) 14.90% Illinois (1,774,551) 13.94% Connecticut (371,818) 10.63% Utah (253,073) 10.45% Rhode Island (111,823) 10.35% Oregon (343,278) 9.56% Idaho (123,900) 8.88% District of Columbia (47,258) 8.53% Washington (526,667) 8.48% Kansas (220,288) 8.06%


[1]

You Can see from the details, that over 85% of Spanish are Concentrated in just 10 States in the USA, predominantly the US-Southwest + Florida/Illinois/New York & New Jersey, And even within those states the Spanish Speaking Population is Higly regionalized (EG-South Florida / South California / SFV / Part of NY Etc...)

I hope you will change the Map (Green shade), and mention though there are 32 Million Spanish Speakers in the US, they are Concentrated in several states + it is predominantly a immigrant language... This would help clear up.clarify the article.

Let me end by mentioning, Its Ironic Wikipedia has been deemed as Highly "Americanized", however this Article is Overly "Hispanicanized" - The facts are subjective @ best and erronoes at Worst. The "Editor/Administrators" seemt o be more concerned about the Spanish Speaking population in Non-Spanish Dominant Countries, if the Article is about SPANISH then FOCUS on Spanish-Domiannt Countries.

Finally another thing, really the 3 Million span speakers in the Phillipines (were did that figure come from), as for the WESTERN SAHARA, just check out the Article on WESTERN SAHARA on Wikipedia (English), the is hardly any mention of Spanish, in fact Arabic is the Soul Official Language, followed by Local Languages, there were 20,000 Spanish Citizen, most of whom left when it was De-Colonized.

IN GENERAL THIS "SPANISH LANGUAGE" ARTICLE Has Factual errors/and data is subjective at best.

Suggest The Mods + SENIOR MODS look + this and Change the Article + them LOCK/RESTRICTS the Article from Future Edits.

Finally within Latin America, there are approximately +40 Million Native Language Speakers, in Some Countries, EG (Peru / Bolivia / Paraguay - Etc...) they form a large percentage of the Population.... No Mention of them???

Look forward to your response - globalnetw@aol.com (or Reply via Wiki)....

Thanks Again
[edit] Map of Hispanophone World

I thought that mapmakers should be aware of this debate going on at Spanish Language. SpiderMMB 01:55, 8 April 2007 (UTC)


I think the map of the hispanophone world should be changed. I don't know when it happened, but the previous map only highlighted certain states within the U.S. I think Spanish in the U.S. is important and should be documented, but this map is highly misleading. Spanish is not spoken extensively in every American state, but this map leaves that impression. Judging from this map, it would seem that Spanish is more important in Montana and North Dakota than it is in Brazil or certain European countries, which I seriously doubt is the case. In my opinion the map should be colored, at most, different shades of green to reflect the top 10 Spanish speaking states in the U.S. To highlight the entire United States, however, is very inaccurate.

I think this map might be a good starting place: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Map-Hispanophone_World%28temporary%29.png. In the meantime I think there should be suggestions as to how to alter the map (I went to wikicommons and have no idea how) or whether the map should be deleted until it can be portrayed more accurately.SpiderMMB 02:42, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

The way that it is currently, the map makes a three-way distinction and colors American states differently. I don't think that the way it is indicates that Spanish is spoken extensively in every state. It could have changed since you put your comment, but I think the map is currently fine in that it doesn't give that impression of the United States. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 04:32, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

We're talking about the same map. The problem, I think, is that all the American states are colored some shade of green. In states where next to no Spanish is spoken, the color should be grey like other non-Spanish speaking places. Having a light shade of green for all of those American states while places like Europe and Brazil are grey creates the impression that Spanish is spoken more in those American states than in those other countries, which isn't the case. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by SpiderMMB (talk • contribs) 09:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

Oh, I see. Well, that's certainly an idea. What do other people think? Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 19:56, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Well Spanish isnt spoken in Brazil or Europe outside Spain and Andorra either so they should all be grey including all US states without a significant and sourceablke Spanish speaking population, SqueakBox 19:59, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that Brazil or Europe are Spanish-speaking. What I meant is that certain places in Brazil and countries in Europe probably have higher concentrations of Spanish speakers than some of the U.S. states shaded the lightest green. This creates the wrong impression that those light-green American states have higher concentrations of Spanish-speakers. I agree with you that they should all be grey except the U.S. states with significant and sourecable Spanish-speaking populations, such as New Mexico, Texas, and California. This page should provide a good starting point.SpiderMMB 21:52, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I've reverted the map to its earlier version. There was dissastisfaction expressed with it here as well as here and on this talk page. No one seems to be able to edit it, so I've reverted it back for the time being to a less controversial version. Hopefully someone can improve upon it.SpiderMMB 19:19, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

You realize that the map you reverted to has the same problem that you addressed just above, right? Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 20:48, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

It's not as pronounced. The only notable Spanish-language emphasis is placed on Southwestern U.S. states and Florida.SpiderMMB 00:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Reply: I removed the new map you have provided, due to it's giving out misleading information. We already have a map with fact details and informations, why change the truth. --Cajamarca express 12:02, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

If you bothered to read this talk page you would know why. There's an entire discussion above. The map inaccurately gives the portrayal that Spanish is spoken more widely in certain U.S. States than in other parts of the world, which is not true. In states where it is hardly spoken at all (like Maryland) it should be grey and not light green. This map gives the impression more people speak Spanish in the Dakotas than in the two counrties that borden Spain, France and Portugal, which I doubt is the case.
I'll repeat it again, I have nothing against the U.S. being represented on this map, especially as it has the fifth-largest Spanish speaking population in the world. But the map as it stands is grossly misleading. I'll provide links, again, to two talk pages, here as well as here that echo these sentiments. If the EARLIER (note, NOT new) map I've provided inaccurately lists Western Sahara, then fine, it is inaccurate. But the current map needs to be changed also. People have also voiced concern that the shaded parts of western Brazil, which mostly contains Amazon territory, should not be shaded either.
Can we intelligently discuss this or is it going to turn into a childish revert war like the Phillippines?SpiderMMB 01:37, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

...So you reverted to a map that has the same problem but is wrong in other ways? That sounds like you're going backwards. I suggest we keep the newer map until someone can edit it. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 18:19, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Still waiting for the Map of Hispanophobe World.


Why are the United States all coloured in Green? I thought Spanish was mostly spoken around New York, Chicago and in the southern states. What if you coloured the states where a large majority of the people study Spanish as a second language a different colour? —the preceding unsigned comment is by 211.28.74.218 (talk • contribs)

It depends on the granularity you seek. Why not counties instead of states? Why not cities? Anyhow, it something to propose.--Mariano(t/c) 13:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm of the opinion that the U.S. should be represented on the map but accurately -- the current map creates a big misrepresentation. I think SqueakBox and I agreed it should only be places with a high number or percentage of Spanish speakers. Based upon this page I would suggest lightly shading Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California. NY, FL, and IL have high numbers but I'm guessing they're around metropolitan areas, so maybe a green dot in NYC, Chicago, and Miami would do. The problem is changing the actually map, it's not as easy as editing an entry and unfortunately I haven't had time to look into it. I contacted Christopher Sundita, who is an administrator and has edited the map in the past, but never got a reply. SpiderMMB 03:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I think the map is small enough that coloring only individual cities or counties is a bit extreme. States is fine. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 17:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Take a look at the maps for Italophone world and Francophone world to see what I mean by dots (actually more like squares). These maps are the same size and template as the hispanophone world, and they show up just fine. The thing is, I think the most important thing for the map is accuracy. SpiderMMB 01:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

All right, but I still think that, especially in the southwest, marking individual American cities only would not be demonstrative of how widespread Spanish is in those areas. Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I agree about the Southwest. If you look back I actually said I think the entire states of TX, NM, AZ, and CA should be shaded (lightly, in order to indicate it is still not the majority language there). SpiderMMB 03:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Then we are in agreement. Onward! Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 05:41, 18 March 2007 (UTC)


Why is the entire US coloured light green? I thought that Spanish was mostly spoken in the South. This map is obviously bias.

Fully agree, SqueakBox 14:51, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Also agree, and moving this to the bottom and including it with the rest of the discussion. SpiderMMB 01:32, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Location of Canary islands

On 21:50, 25 July 2006 user Satesclop edited the location of the Canary islands. However, the previous version was, in fact, correct. -Samulili 08:10, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Falklands

Why are the Falklands dark green? Since they've been inhabited by British settlers for at least two centuries now, I can't imagine there's a sizeable Hispanic population there. Not getting into the battle of who it should belong to, but as the current population stands saying the country is heavily Hispanic strikes me as really inaccurate. 69.122.114.225 18:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File_talk:Map-Hispanophone_World.png/Archive1

Attemps to enhance the area of the Spanish language

This map is permantely under attack by several user that permantely try to enhance the geographical expansion of the Spanish language, without any credible sources whatsoever!. Spanish is not spoken in relevent numbers as a first language in Brazil (and you should not count Portuñol, since it is a mixed language between Portuguese and Spanish, spoken as a second language, in very small areas of contact between Uruguay and Brazil - note the areas some user try to colour that are bigger than Spain itself), Morocco or the Western Sahara. It is not spoken at all in the Falklands. And the verifiable data for the Philippines give a number of less than 3000 speakers! And the The Cervantes Institute source is not a primary source (is is not even a secondary source!!), as it just quotes an Italian almanac (Calendario Atlante de Agostini 1997, Novara, Instituto Geográfico de Agostino, 1996, p. 315, that gives, without sources, 3% of the population speaking Spanish). To this the Cervantes Institute adds 689.000 speakers of Chavacano (not Spanish proper, but a Spanish creole, spoken mostly in Zamboanga City and in the provinces of Zamboanga del Sur, Zamboanga Sibugay, Zamboanga del Norte, and Basilan. It is also spoken in some areas of Cavite, Davao, and Cotabato), according to data from A. Quilis (La lengua española en cuatro mundos, Madrid, Mapfre, 1992, p. 82), without specifying if in the first estimate these Chavacano speakers were already counted or not (thus raising the total figure to 2.450.000). The Cervantes site does state that these estimate contradict the Census. One should also notice that English is an official language in the Philippines (as it is in India), unlike Spanish (see The Official Website of the Republic of the Philippines). Therefore, I believe that the Philippines should NOT be included in the Hispanosphere in any way, since there are no relevant numbers of Spanish spkeakers there, given that the Cervantes Institute is not, in this specific matter, a reliable source! Please stop trying to change the map in unsourced and biased ways! The Ogre 15:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I support you, Ogre. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Ƶ§œš¹! The Ogre 15:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Small corrections and note

Furthermore I'm:

* Removing Aruba (according to Ethnologue Spanish is only spoken by less then 10,000 in a population of 103,484; and en:Papiamento is describe byt the Government of Aruba (Languages of Aruba - Government of Aruba (official site) - 2005) as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one).
* Removing Netherlands Antilles, since Ethnologue does not even list Spanish as a language spoken there and en:Papiamento is describe as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one; even if the Government does say, in Population and Housing Census 2001, that 6.1% do speak Spanish (10,699 speakers of Spanish ot of 183,000), that is hardly a significative number ans is ranked 4th after Papiamento, English and Dutch.
* Maintaning Belize, since it does seem that there are 130,000 speakers of Spanish out of 297,651 (although a better source is needed to verify this).
* Maintaning Trinidad and Tobago, even if Ethnologue reports only 4,100 speakers of Spanish out of 1,305,000, because the Government gives it special status.

The Ogre 15:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] About map Image:Map-Hispanophone World.PNG done by user Migang2g

The discussion at Image talk:Map-Hispanophone World.PNG is pertinent for this page. I have added the following comments to that map: I persist in considering this map as a biased attempt to enhance the areas tha supposedly speak Spanish or were a significante proportion of the population speaks Spanish. There are several errors:

* Brazil - en:Portuñol is not a Spanish creole or dialect, it is mixed contact language between Portuguese and Spanish (generally spoken as a second language when in contact between Spanish and Portuguese speakers), and, as such, it should not be included in either a map of the Spanish language in the world, either a map of the Portuguese language in the world. Furthermore, in this map the supposed area of Portuñol wrongly includes:
o all of the border of Brazil with Spanish speaking countries - without any source whatsoever, never mentioned anywhere, and a pure invention by user Migang2g;
o the States of en:Rio Grande do Sul and, at least, parts of Santa Catarina - another pure invention by Migang2g, since Portuñol, even if it was to be included, is not sopken in such wide areas, but only in very specific localities, such as the border between Uruguay and Brazil, notably in the region of the twin cities of Rivera and Santana do Livramento, where the border is open and a street is the only line dividing the two countries. Notice that the entry for the minority languages in Rio Grande to Sul do not even mention Portuñol;
* Aruba (according to Ethnologue Spanish is only spoken by less then 10,000 in a population of 103,484; and en:Papiamento is describe byt the Government of Aruba (Languages of Aruba - Government of Aruba (official site) - 2005) as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one).
* Netherlands Antilles, since Ethnologue does not even list Spanish as a language spoken there and en:Papiamento is describe as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one; even if the Government does say, in Population and Housing Census 2001, that 6.1% do speak Spanish (10,699 speakers of Spanish out of 183,000), that is hardly a significative number ans is ranked 4th after Papiamento, English and Dutch.
* Falklands - a pure Hispanophone invention, since no Spanish is basically spoken there, and English is universal in a population basically of British descent;
* Philippines - verifiable data for the Philippines give a number of less than 3000 speakers! And the The Cervantes Institute source is not a primary source (is is not even a secondary source!!), as it just quotes an Italian almanac (Calendario Atlante de Agostini 1997, Novara, Instituto Geográfico de Agostino, 1996, p. 315, that gives, without sources, 3% of the population speaking Spanish). To this the Cervantes Institute adds 689.000 speakers of en:Chavacano (not Spanish proper, but a Spanish creole, spoken mostly in Zamboanga City and in the provinces of Zamboanga del Sur, Zamboanga Sibugay, Zamboanga del Norte, and Basilan. It is also spoken in some areas of Cavite, Davao, and Cotabato), according to data from A. Quilis (La lengua española en cuatro mundos, Madrid, Mapfre, 1992, p. 82), without specifying if in the first estimate these Chavacano speakers were already counted or not (thus raising the total figure to 2.450.000). The Cervantes site does state that these estimate contradict the Census. One should also notice that English is an official language in the Philippines (as it is in India), unlike Spanish (see The Official Website of the Republic of the Philippines). Therefore, I believe that the Philippines should NOT be included in the Hispanosphere in any way, since there are no relevant numbers of Spanish spkeakers there, given that the Cervantes Institute is not, in this specific matter, a reliable source;
* USA - the source for this map is in fact better than the first source of the map, because in fact the old source (2000 Census) is about Hispanic population, and the present source (2006 Census) is about Spanish speakers over 5 years old who speak it at home. HOWEVER, the graphical representation in the map is somewhat biased since it colours states with about 3% of speakers in a shade of blue that gives the impression of a significate portion of the population being Hispanophone - the question here is one of graphical representation (compare with Image:Spanish USC2000 PHS.svg, dne with he 2000 Census data);
* Canada - the source presented is not a direct one to the Canadian PMB Print Measurement Bureau, but a reference in an online Hispanic-Canadian magazine (Factor Hispano Online). Even if the numbers presented are true (909,000 Spanish-speaking people in a total universe of more than 30 millions, for 2000), Canada should not be ALL coloured and in such a strong shade of blue, which clearly aims to give the impression that Spanish is more spoken there then in fact it is. One should must, for a country where Spanish is clearly a minority language of migrants, acertain the exact geographical distribution of speakers, and not colour the whole country as being, in a way, Spanish speaking;
* Morocco - Spanish is not soken in significant levels at all in any part of the country, and no source states that - even if Spanish is known to some degree (and what degree is that?) by a minority people as a second language, that should not be included since this is not a map about Spanish knowledge as a foreign language, but a map of speakers of Spanish as first language. The source presented, by the way, is not a primary source, but just quotes others sources without giving the specific methodologies that were used to obtain any tye of numbers;
* Western Sahara (RASD and Tinduf) -I just quote what Migang2g say "There aren´t official sources because saharauis don´t have an official country" And, in fact, all that is said about the situation in that territory does make one believe that Spanish is not spoken at all in any significante level (see en:Western Sahara and en:Sahrawi - note that for these the English language article states that their languages are "Hassaniya, Modern Standard Arabic; a northern minority also speak Tachelhit (a Berber dialect)", not Spanish), even if some sources just state that Spanish is spoken (never giving numbers; and the numbers of the overall population are not relevant because they say nothing about the numbers of Spanis speakers), that seems more a political position than a description of actual reality. The Ogre 16:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Spanish language in the Philippines

Spanish was an official language in the Philippines from the beginning of colonization with Miguel López de Legazpi in the 16th century, until the change of Constitution in 1973. After having been quickly redesignated an official language by Presidential proclamation, Spanish remained official until a subsequent constitution in 1987 removed its official status [1]. Speakers of Spanish nowadays, comprise 2,500 and more than 5,000 people study Spanish in the Philippines. [2]. --Keepscases (talk) 06:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Give me a break...! That's 7500 out of 96 millions! The Ogre (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)

http://ozzy.cz.cc/init.php?u=Oi8vd3d3LmFudGltb29uLmNvbS9mb3J1bS9mMi1zdGFydC5odG0%3D&b=5
Visitor   Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:20 am GMT
I WARN YOU HISPANICS NOT TO MODIFY TH CONTENTS OF THESE ARTICLES TO NEGATE THEM IN FAVOR OF SPANISH LANGUAGE. BECAUSE THEY'RE RECORDED HERE.

Date and Time: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:14 am GMT

SO, IF OT HAPPENS THAT THE CONTENTS WERE CHANGED AND NEGATED AFTER THE SAID DATE, THEN WE ALREADY KNOW WHO DID IT.
Red Echelon   Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:43 am GMT
VISITOR, estoy de acuerdo. El Español avanza imparablemente y en pocos años va a tener el mismo estatus que el Inglés para superarlo posteriormente. Y quizás el Mundo Occidental acabe siendo bilingüe Español-Inglés porque esa será la única manera de frenar al probable tándem Chino-Hindi(1,500 millones de hablantes).

Los 740 millones del Español+Portugués tenemos que aprender Inglés,y los 380 del Inglés tienen que aprender Español. De momento el Español crece a pasos agigantados en EEUU,y por ejemplo basta decir que el 55% de la región urbana de Los Ángeles es hispano y habla Español frente a un 25% de anglos blancos muy envejecidos, y en el municipio de Nueva York ya hay un 40% de población hispana frente a un 27% de anglos blancos muy envejecidos también. La mayoría del resto de grandes ciudades USA(salvo 3 o 4)se mueven en porcentajes intermedios entre Nueva York y Los Ángeles,y por tanto no hay ninguna exageración o manipulación en el tema del avance del Español en EEUU y en el Mundo.
Blue Tier   Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:00 am GMT
<< VISITOR, estoy de acuerdo. El Español avanza imparablemente y en pocos años va a tener el mismo estatus que el Inglés para superarlo posteriormente. Y quizás el Mundo Occidental acabe siendo bilingüe Español-Inglés porque esa será la única manera de frenar al probable tándem Chino-Hindi(1,500 millones de hablantes).

Los 740 millones del Español+Portugués tenemos que aprender Inglés,y los 380 del Inglés tienen que aprender Español. De momento el Español crece a pasos agigantados en EEUU,y por ejemplo basta decir que el 55% de la región urbana de Los Ángeles es hispano y habla Español frente a un 25% de anglos blancos muy envejecidos, y en el municipio de Nueva York ya hay un 40% de población hispana frente a un 27% de anglos blancos muy envejecidos también. La mayoría del resto de grandes ciudades USA(salvo 3 o 4)se mueven en porcentajes intermedios entre Nueva York y Los Ángeles,y por tanto no hay ninguna exageración o manipulación en el tema del avance del Español en EEUU y en el Mundo. >>

Tu voilà encore avec la façon subjective de la pensée. Je ne suis pas d'accord avec ton opinion subjective.

Pour te dire la vérité, que les Hispaniques et les chiffres mis de Wikipédia ne repose sur aucune base du tout. C'est une forme de tricherie dans la première place.

Et s'il te plaît, arrêtes d'utiliser le monde lussophone comme un outil pour étendre la langue espagnole. Le Lussophones sont pas à l'aise d'être identifiés avec les Hispaniques. Ils préfèrent être heureux confondu avec le monde français ou du monde italien. C'est pourquoi le français est plus parlé que l'espagnol au Brésil et au Portugal.

Tu as évoqué encore le statut de l'espagnol aux Etats-Unis, voici l'information qui éclairera ta pensée pourquoi les articles sur la langue espagnole dans la Wikipédia est tellement exagérée.

ERIC Identifier: ED335176
Publication Date: 1991-05-00
Author: Santiestevan, Stina
Source: ERIC Clearinghouse on Rural Education and Small Schools Charleston WV.

Use of the Spanish Language in the United States: Trends, Challenges, and Opportunities. ERIC Digest.

Continuing controversy about the nation's non-English speakers--particularly its Spanish speakers--often prompts two questions. First, will the use of Spanish diminish or grow more widespread? Second, is the use of the Spanish language only a challenge for educators and citizens, or does it also present opportunities as yet unrealized?

This Digest addresses policymakers, administrators, and teachers of Spanish-speaking students. It is based largely on a study by sociologist Calvin Veltman (1988), The Future of the Spanish Language in the United States. The Digest examines the Spanish-speaking group in the United States, its growth through net immigration and natural increase, and its eventual decline as speakers shift to English.

THE NUMBERS

Not all U.S. Hispanics speak Spanish, of course, but almost all U.S. Spanish speakers are Hispanic, and the Hispanic population is growing rapidly. In 1989, the nation's Hispanic population was estimated to be 20.1 million, a 39 percent increase over the 1980 Census figure of 14.5 million. The rate of increase for the total U.S. population was 9.5 percent, but for the non-Hispanic population it was 7.5 percent. Hispanics were 8.2 percent of the population in 1989, compared to 6.5 percent in 1980 (Hispanic Policy Development Project, 1990).

The Hispanic Policy Development Project (HPDP, 1990) has projected the following U.S. Hispanic population figures:

1990: 22,024,000

1995: 27,692,000, and

2000: 34,818,000.

Due to immigration and natural increase, the number of U.S. Spanish speakers will continue to grow (for example, Word, 1989), but the recent study by Veltman (1988) sharply contradicts the widespread impression that Hispanic immigrants to the United States resist learning English.

Despite public opinion to the contrary, the data suggest that U.S. Hispanics--both native born and immigrants--do learn and speak English. Moreover, they want their children to speak English (Veltman, 1988). After 10 to 15 years in the United States, some 75 percent of all Hispanic immigrants are speaking English regularly, and virtually all their children will speak English.

The maintenance of Spanish language use in the United States depends on the continuous arrival of new Hispanic immigrants. Because of ongoing immigration, bilingualism may indeed persist longer among Hispanics than it did among other immigrant groups, particularly in certain parts of the country. But continuing immigration does not delay the learning of English by immigrants who are already here or by the native born (Veltman, 1988).

Veltman developed unique population models simulating the flow of immigrants and their children into national language communities. His model is similar to that used by the U.S. Census Bureau (for example, U.S. Bureau of the Census, 1982), but adds language practice and language change factors (Veltman, 1988, chapter 10). Although he analyzes much of the language data collected by the Census Bureau, his projections are based largely on data derived from the Bureau's 1976 Survey of Income and Education. This survey contains the best available data for both mother tongue and current language use.

In 1976, some 10.5 million people in the United States spoke Spanish. Of these, only about 4.5 million were mainly Spanish-speaking, including 2 million who spoke Spanish only occasionally. However, some of those who have shifted to English were not counted; lost to the surveys are Hispanics who speak English and live in households where English is the principal home language. They likely have been classified as "Anglophones," persons of English mother tongue in Veltman's terminology. ("Mother tongue" is the language first learned and spoken as a child.)

Using a model that projects a net Hispanic immigration of 250,000 per year, Veltman predicts that the Spanish-speaking group, both monolingual and bilingual, will total 16.6 million by the year 2001 (Veltman, 1988, p. 102). Of these, some 95 percent of the immigrant population will have Spanish for their mother tongue. However, only a bare majority of the native born will be given Spanish as their first language. This fact is of pivotal importance.

http://www.ericdigests.org/pre-9221/spanish.htm

This ERIC digest examines the Spanish-speaking group in the United States, its growth through net immigration and natural increase, and its eventual decline as speakers shift to English. The Hispanic population is growing rapidly, but data suggest that U.S. Hispanics do learn and speak English. Research predicts that by the year 2001 the Spanish-speaking group will total 16.6 million and some 95% of the immigrant population will have Spanish for their mother tongues. However, only a bare majority of the U.S. native born will be given Spanish as their first language. Although most Hispanic immigrants remain lifetime bilinguals, the language shift begins immediately upon an immigrant's arrival in the United States, and ends within approximately 15 years. The language shift spans three generations, beginning with the immigrants who continue to speak Spanish, and ending with their grandchildren who virtually all have English as their mother tongue. Policy implications are: (1) the English language is not endangered by the use of Spanish; (2) simple courtesy suggests that essential public announcements and services should be provided in Spanish; (3) more English classes for adults are needed; (4) Spanish-speaking children need bilingual education; and (5) bilingual capabilities should be encouraged among all.

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=ED335176&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=ED335176

La Herencia

La Herencia was voted the City's Official Publication of the Santa Fe 400th Anniversay in 2006 by the Santa Fe City Council.

La Herencia continues in the tradition of the Spanish press in the Southwest that began in Santa Fe in 1834 and, ironically, ended in Santa Fe in 1958. Once again in Santa Fe, La Herencia began publication in 1994.

La Herencia was founded by Santa Fe native, Ana Pacheco, in response to the rapid decline of the Spanish language and Hispanic culture of New Mexico. The quarterly publication provides information on Hispanic culture with articles written by local historians from New Mexico and the Southwest. The editorial consists of oral history, Spanish language and Southwestern literature, book reviews, poetry, recipes, myths and other forms of Spanish and Mexican folklore retold with documentary photographs and illustrations. Current issues and trends are also covered. La Herencia is the only publication of its kind written about Hispanic culture by Hispanics from the Southwest. La Herencia is the publication for Hispanic literary arts in the 21st century.

http://www.santafe400th.com/index.php?page=la-herencia
Red Echelon   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:40 pm GMT
BLUE TIER, un hispano que llegaba a Los Ángeles en 1.985 se encontraba con un 20% de población hispana y un 55% de anglos blancos con una media de edad de 35 años, pero ahora el hispano que llega a Los Ángeles se encuentra con un 55% de hispanos y un 25% de anglos blancos muy envejecidos(47 años de edad media). El resto de la población es asiática o negra,y a estos les importa poco el Inglés. Además,en 1.985 no había medios de comunicación masivos en Español y tampoco las empresas pagaban sueldos más altos por ser bilingüe.

Es decir, que en 1.985,o incluso en 1.995,todo el ambiente que rodeaba al hispano era propicio para que se olvidase del Español, pero desde el año 2.000 todo es completamente diferente porque ya hay una presencia masiva de hispanos en Los Ángeles y otras muchas ciudades importantes,al igual que numerosos medios de comunicación en Español o cientos de empresas pagando sueldos más altos a los bilingües. La consecuencia es que desde el año 2.000 los hispanos ya no solo pierden el Español sino que lo conservan o lo recuperan los que lo habían perdido porque Español significa dinero y porque todo su entorno(el 80% de sus barrios y medios de comunicación como Univisión)hablan Español. Los anglos están muy envejecidos y nunca se bajan del coche cuando salen de sus casas, es decir,que la calle habla Español.

Incluso los alcaldes de las ciudades más importantes empiezan a ser hispanos bilingües,y por tanto los hispanos ven que Español=dinero y poder económico. Los alcaldes de Los Ángeles y Miami ya son hispanos,y esas ciudades son la segunda y la quinta de EEUU en importancia económica.
Spanish Abanico   Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:47 pm GMT
<< Let me end by mentioning, Its Ironic Wikipedia has been deemed as Highly "Americanized", however this Article is Overly "Hispanicanized" - The facts are subjective @ best and erronoes at Worst. The "Editor/Administrators" seemt o be more concerned about the Spanish Speaking population in Non-Spanish Dominant Countries, if the Article is about SPANISH then FOCUS on Spanish-Domiannt Countries.

You're so true, Visitor Wikipedia is now hispanized especially nowadays that Wikipedia is in need of cash donations. Powerful Spanish speaking entities will take this as an opportunity to win those behind Wikipedia by using cash donation to falsify everything just to make it appear that Spanish is ever expanding.

<< Finally another thing, really the 3 Million span speakers in the Phillipines (were did that figure come from), as for the WESTERN SAHARA, just check out the Article on WESTERN SAHARA on Wikipedia (English), the is hardly any mention of Spanish, in fact Arabic is the Soul Official Language, followed by Local Languages, there were 20,000 Spanish Citizen, most of whom left when it was De-Colonized. >>

This so laughable and too much. The Hispanics are so obvious of their inventions about Spanish.
Red Tier   Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:04 pm GMT
RED ECHELON, arrêt de faire la justification sur l'exagération de la langue espagnole dans Wikipédia.

L'étude prouve que les hispaniques de deuxième génération ou même les hispaniques de première génération passer à l'anglais et il devient la langue domicile.

Nombre de locuteurs d'espagnol dépend du nombre d'immigrés pour compenser pour la perte de ses locuteurs à l'anglais après de rester aux États-Unis pour une durée de temps considérable.
Blue Tier   Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:39 pm GMT
RED ECHELON, arrêt de faire la justification sur l'exagération de la langue espagnole dans Wikipédia.

L'étude prouve que les hispaniques de deuxième génération, voire hispaniques de première génération passer à l'anglais et il devient la langue d'origine.

Nombre de locuteurs espagnols dépend du nombre d'immigrés pour compenser pour la perte de ses locuteurs à l'anglais après avoir séjourné aux États-Unis pour une durée de temps considérable.
Red Echelon   Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:43 pm GMT
Es cierto lo del poder económico hispano porque nuestra economía ya genera 7 billones de Dólares(inc. Brasil y los hispanos de EEUU) frente a 18 del Inglés,4'4 del Japonés,4 del Alemán,2'5 del Francés y del Chino Mandarín,....etc., pero insisto en que no hay manipulación acerca del Español.

Consultad por ejemplo la lista de las 10 ciudades con mayor PIB(GDP)del Mundo sin incluir EEUU y vereis que son Tokio,Londres,París,Ciudad de México,Seúl,Buenos Aires,Osaka,Sao Paulo,Hong Kong,y Madrid. Hay 4 ciudades hispanas y solo 1 francesa. Y en EEUU los hispanos ya empiezan a ser mayoría simple o absoluta en Los Ángeles,Miami,Houston,Dallas,Phoenix,Las Vegas,San Francisco,Nueva York,Chicago,San Diego,....etc.

No hay ninguna exageración,porque en muy pocos años 11 de las 20 ciudades con mayor GDP del Mundo van a ser hispanas o mayoritariamente hispanas frente a solo 4 que van a ser anglo. Es la pura realidad.
Blue Tier   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:00 pm GMT
Pas de personne va croire ces chiffres-la sur l'espagnol que sont exageré grossement.

C'est tous faux.
opinion   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:09 pm GMT
Somebody doesn't like that number of Spanish speakers grow so fast?
Red Echelon   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:19 pm GMT
París,capital de la francofonía,engloba 12 millones de habitantes. Las capitales de la hispanidad son Ciudad de México(27 millones incl. Toluca,Cuernavaca,....etc. y sexta ciudad del Mundo por GDP),Buenos Aires(14 millones y décima ciudad del Mundo en GDP),Sao Paulo(32 milones incl. Santos,Campinas,...etc.), y Madrid(8 millones y séptima ciudad del Mundo por facturación de sus multinacionales). Las multinacionales con sede en Nueva York facturan 860.000 millones de Dólares,y las de Madrid 470.000(Fortune Global 500).
Observation   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:21 pm GMT
<< Somebody doesn't like that number of Spanish speakers grow so fast? >>

Because it's all lies.
Blue Tier   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:23 pm GMT
<< París,capital de la francofonía,engloba 12 millones de habitantes. Las capitales de la hispanidad son Ciudad de México(27 millones incl. Toluca,Cuernavaca,....etc. y sexta ciudad del Mundo por GDP),Buenos Aires(14 millones y décima ciudad del Mundo en GDP),Sao Paulo(32 milones incl. Santos,Campinas,...etc.), y Madrid(8 millones y séptima ciudad del Mundo por facturación de sus multinacionales). Las multinacionales con sede en Nueva York facturan 860.000 millones de Dólares,y las de Madrid 470.000(Fortune Global 500). >>

Cela m'est egal. Après tout, c'est tous faux.
Red Echelon   Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:45 pm GMT
El PIB(GDP) de París(12 M habitantes)es de 570.000 millones de Dólares en 2.007, pero el de Sao Paulo(icl. Campinas,etc.) es de 600.000 millones de Dólares. El de México(incl Toluca,Cuernavaca,...etc.)es de 500.000 millones D., el de Buenos Aires de 400.000, y el de Madrid de 280.000(incl Toledo y Guadalajara). Es decir, que oficialmente Sao Paulo o Ciudad de México están en 390-400.000 millones,pero incluyendo TODA su periferia se ponen en 600 y 500.000, pero además crecen al 6-7% anual,mientras que París lo hace al 0-1%.

Sao Paulo ya es la cuarta ciudad del Mundo por GDP,México la séptima,y Los Ángeles la segunda. París es la sexta.