For the love of Kernow
"Gwiasva pur werinek, dyghtys gans tus Gernewek neb a drig yn Kernow. Meur a nowodhow, tybyansow, ha martesen an moyha bysi Kowsva Gernewek y'n Kesroesweyth. Yma dhedhi ynwedh skeusennva pur dha.
Ke dhe Kernow24 "
Nothing but incoherent rubbish.
Ke dhe Kernow24 "
Nothing but incoherent rubbish.
Those Cornish nationalists are weird people. They're almost as bad as those Scots who think that Berwick, a town in Northumbria and the most northerly town in England, should belong to Scotland. I met a few of them on another discussion forum. I had to tell them that Berwick rightfully belongs to England as it was founded by the Anglo-Saxons in the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria, but a Scots army stole it from the English in 1068 and it changed hands between the two countries over hundreds of years, and it's now English where it belongs.
And Cornish nationalists can't get it into their heads that Cornwall has been an English county for hundreds of years, and definetely since 1888 when Cornwall County Council was created.
Many of them say: "Cornwall has its own parliament - the Stannary!"
But the Stannary was nothing more than the parliament of the Guild of Tin Miners - tin mining once being a major part of the Cornish economy.
And Cornish nationalists can't get it into their heads that Cornwall has been an English county for hundreds of years, and definetely since 1888 when Cornwall County Council was created.
Many of them say: "Cornwall has its own parliament - the Stannary!"
But the Stannary was nothing more than the parliament of the Guild of Tin Miners - tin mining once being a major part of the Cornish economy.
"but a Scots army stole"
Those damn imperialistic Scots. Not at all like the peace loving English.
Those damn imperialistic Scots. Not at all like the peace loving English.
No you're wrong again Adam from Bolton !
1. Cornwall is legally an extra territorial land from England and not an administrative county which it has illegally been for nearly 400 years .
2. Although our own Parliament was suspended in the 18th Century, we still have Independent Sovereign Rights that are fixed in law.
3. No record exists of any formal annexation of Cornwall to England.
4. Cornwall, like Wales, was not party to the Act of Union in 1707.
5. Cornwall's right to its own sovereign Parliament, and the powers it pocesses under the Charter of Pardon were confirmed as valid in British law by the Lord Chancellor in 1977.
6. Cornwall is a member of the Federal Union of Eurupean Nationalities which has special participatory status at the council of Europe in Strasburg and consultative status to the United Nations.
7. There is no mention in the " Anglo-Saxon Chronicles " that Cornwall was ever conquered by the English .
8. The Cornish language gained official UK Government recognition in 2002 and funding in 2005.
9. Henry VIII listed England and Cornwall separately, in the list of his realms given in his Coronation address.
10. Before the 1960's, there was little difference between Cornwall and Wales in constitutional terms.
11. Many treaty's and documents up until the 18th century made reference to there being a distinction between England and Cornubia ( Cornwall ) .
12. The 1969-71 Killbrandon Report into the British constitution states that, " when referring to Cornwall, official sources should cite the Duchy". This was in recognition of it's constitutional position.
13. You now have the right on some official forms to be able to record your Nationality as Cornish. Eg :NHS Registration Forms or if the Police ask you your Nationality, it is acceptable to them to record it as Cornish.
14. Maps of the British Isles produced up until the 18th century showed Cornwall as a distinct entity and on a par with Wales.
15. Cornwall is an older nation than England and one of the oldest Duchies in Europe.
16. 90% of Cornish place names are of celtic origin and derived from the Cornish language.
17. The Duchy includes the entire territory known as Cornwall, including the bed and waters of the River Tamar.
18. The Cornish are a Celtic people who once inhabited the entire region covered by present-day Cornwall, Devon and West-Somerset.
19. The Duke of Cornwall is our head of state ; Not the UK monarch.
20. The Duke's powers are further confirmed in the Tamar Bridge Act as recently as 1998.
http://home.btconnect.com/graham-hart/Cornish-English.htm
Kernow Bys Vyken !
1. Cornwall is legally an extra territorial land from England and not an administrative county which it has illegally been for nearly 400 years .
2. Although our own Parliament was suspended in the 18th Century, we still have Independent Sovereign Rights that are fixed in law.
3. No record exists of any formal annexation of Cornwall to England.
4. Cornwall, like Wales, was not party to the Act of Union in 1707.
5. Cornwall's right to its own sovereign Parliament, and the powers it pocesses under the Charter of Pardon were confirmed as valid in British law by the Lord Chancellor in 1977.
6. Cornwall is a member of the Federal Union of Eurupean Nationalities which has special participatory status at the council of Europe in Strasburg and consultative status to the United Nations.
7. There is no mention in the " Anglo-Saxon Chronicles " that Cornwall was ever conquered by the English .
8. The Cornish language gained official UK Government recognition in 2002 and funding in 2005.
9. Henry VIII listed England and Cornwall separately, in the list of his realms given in his Coronation address.
10. Before the 1960's, there was little difference between Cornwall and Wales in constitutional terms.
11. Many treaty's and documents up until the 18th century made reference to there being a distinction between England and Cornubia ( Cornwall ) .
12. The 1969-71 Killbrandon Report into the British constitution states that, " when referring to Cornwall, official sources should cite the Duchy". This was in recognition of it's constitutional position.
13. You now have the right on some official forms to be able to record your Nationality as Cornish. Eg :NHS Registration Forms or if the Police ask you your Nationality, it is acceptable to them to record it as Cornish.
14. Maps of the British Isles produced up until the 18th century showed Cornwall as a distinct entity and on a par with Wales.
15. Cornwall is an older nation than England and one of the oldest Duchies in Europe.
16. 90% of Cornish place names are of celtic origin and derived from the Cornish language.
17. The Duchy includes the entire territory known as Cornwall, including the bed and waters of the River Tamar.
18. The Cornish are a Celtic people who once inhabited the entire region covered by present-day Cornwall, Devon and West-Somerset.
19. The Duke of Cornwall is our head of state ; Not the UK monarch.
20. The Duke's powers are further confirmed in the Tamar Bridge Act as recently as 1998.
http://home.btconnect.com/graham-hart/Cornish-English.htm
Kernow Bys Vyken !
Er, just what does any of this have to do with a forum about the English language?
My mega big disappointment of 2005 was not hearing people speak Cornish when I was down in Cornwall. My mate and I tried to prise words of Cornish from the local people but it was hard going.....most of the people who said they were 'Cornish born and bred' either didn't know a word of the Language or knew just the odd word or phrase. It was also difficult to find people speaking with a strong Cornish accent to the point of unintellgibility....just some old guys in a pub which was great. Yet the idea of a distinct and separate Cornish identity is quite strong in many Cornish people...even among those who have migrated down there and are Cornish by adoption....a feeling of 'separateness from England proper'. But it shows itself in the display of the Flag of St Piran rather than the Cornish Language....something that's evident as soon as you cross the Tamar Bridge at Saltash....over into Cornwall from 'foreign England'. Much like crossing the Tweed from 'foreign England' into Scotland at Coldstream.
Talking of the Tweed, Adam......Berwick upon Tweed logically SHOULD be in Scotland, not England as it's situated on the north bank of the river. To all intents and purposes it's a Scottish town, even though it's now in England....but only just. Everything about the place is Scottish, even many of the accents in the streets. I resent the way a lot of the gun battlement emplacements on the medieval Town Walls still point towards Scotland! They should point east towards Russia as, technically, Berwick is still at war with Russia and has been since the 18th century or something.
To make this post Language orientated, Lallans (Lowland Scots) is readily uderstood by the people of Berwick...many of them speak it anyway, and many of the people at work there commute across the border a couple of miles away.
Talking of the Tweed, Adam......Berwick upon Tweed logically SHOULD be in Scotland, not England as it's situated on the north bank of the river. To all intents and purposes it's a Scottish town, even though it's now in England....but only just. Everything about the place is Scottish, even many of the accents in the streets. I resent the way a lot of the gun battlement emplacements on the medieval Town Walls still point towards Scotland! They should point east towards Russia as, technically, Berwick is still at war with Russia and has been since the 18th century or something.
To make this post Language orientated, Lallans (Lowland Scots) is readily uderstood by the people of Berwick...many of them speak it anyway, and many of the people at work there commute across the border a couple of miles away.
Guest = Damian.....the above post was mine.
Back to Cornwall......looking at written Cornish and written Welsh, they look very similar...some words are exactly the same and mean the same thing.....eg 'treath' for beach and 'eglwys' for church.
Back to Cornwall......looking at written Cornish and written Welsh, they look very similar...some words are exactly the same and mean the same thing.....eg 'treath' for beach and 'eglwys' for church.
"Those damn imperialistic Scots. Not at all like the peace loving English."
Stealing a town is imperialism in my view.
You have to remember that the Scots had their own imperialistic designs. They joined the Union in 1707, but in the 1690s, when Scotland was an independent nation, it tried to found a colony on the Isthmus of Panama, but failed. The decade after, it united with England and Wales - probably because it knew it could found an Empire that way.
Stealing a town is imperialism in my view.
You have to remember that the Scots had their own imperialistic designs. They joined the Union in 1707, but in the 1690s, when Scotland was an independent nation, it tried to found a colony on the Isthmus of Panama, but failed. The decade after, it united with England and Wales - probably because it knew it could found an Empire that way.
"No record exists of any formal annexation of Cornwall to England. "
No record exists of England annexation of Northumbria.
"The Cornish are a Celtic people".
So are the Cumbrians.
"90% of Cornish place names are of celtic origin and derived from the Cornish language."
There are loads of placename of Danish origin in Yorkshire, but I'm not advocating handing Yorkshire over to Denmark.
"The Duke of Cornwall is our head of state ; Not the UK monarch."
HAHAHAHA! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH! The Queen is Head of State of ALL the UK. You Cornish nationalists aren't right in the head. You have screws lose. Do you also believe that the Duke of Edinburgh is Edinburgh's Head of State?
"Cornwall is an older nation than England and one of the oldest Duchies in Europe. "
Lancaster and Edinburgh are duchies.
No record exists of England annexation of Northumbria.
"The Cornish are a Celtic people".
So are the Cumbrians.
"90% of Cornish place names are of celtic origin and derived from the Cornish language."
There are loads of placename of Danish origin in Yorkshire, but I'm not advocating handing Yorkshire over to Denmark.
"The Duke of Cornwall is our head of state ; Not the UK monarch."
HAHAHAHA! WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH! The Queen is Head of State of ALL the UK. You Cornish nationalists aren't right in the head. You have screws lose. Do you also believe that the Duke of Edinburgh is Edinburgh's Head of State?
"Cornwall is an older nation than England and one of the oldest Duchies in Europe. "
Lancaster and Edinburgh are duchies.
"Talking of the Tweed, Adam......Berwick upon Tweed logically SHOULD be in Scotland, not England as it's situated on the north bank of the river. To all intents and purposes it's a Scottish town, even though it's now in England....but only just."
Berwick was founded by the Anglo-Saxons in the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria. So how can it be Scottish? It was ALWAYS Anglo-Saxon until a Scottish army invaded it. It is now in England where it rightfully belongs.
Some people are a little confused - one minute they are telling me that Cornwall isn't in England because Cornwall is Celtic, but those same people are also trying to tell me that Berwick should be in Scotland and not England even though Berwick is an Anglo-Saxon town founded by Anglo-Saxons!
Berwick was founded by the Anglo-Saxons in the Anglo-Saxon kingdom of Northumbria. So how can it be Scottish? It was ALWAYS Anglo-Saxon until a Scottish army invaded it. It is now in England where it rightfully belongs.
Some people are a little confused - one minute they are telling me that Cornwall isn't in England because Cornwall is Celtic, but those same people are also trying to tell me that Berwick should be in Scotland and not England even though Berwick is an Anglo-Saxon town founded by Anglo-Saxons!
Cornwall - English shire county status
Many people reject all claims that Cornwall is, or ought to be, distinct from England. While recognising that there are local peculiarisms, they point out that Yorkshire, Kent, and Cheshire (for example) also have local customs and identities that do not seem to undermine their essential Englishness. The legal claims concerning the Duchy, they argue, are without merit except as relics of mediaeval feudalism, and they contend that Stannary law applied not to Cornwall as a 'nation', but merely to the guild of tin miners. Rather, they argue that Cornwall has been not only in English possession, but part of England itself, either since Athelstan conquered it in 936, since the administrative centralisation of the Tudor dynasty, or since the creation of Cornwall County Council in 1888. Finally, they agree with representatives of the Duchy itself that the Duchy is, in essence, a real estate company that serves to raise income for the Prince of Wales. They compare the situation of the Duchy of Cornwall with that of the Duchy of Lancaster, which has similar rights in Lancashire, which is indisputably part of England. However, it must be remembered that the use of the Duchy name and its expansion to provide an income for the Heir Apparent does not effect the ancient rights of Cornwall, especially because it can be in the interests of the Duchy and the Prince of Wales to ignore those rights
The proponents of such perspectives include not only Unionists, but most branches and agencies of government.
answers.com
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The town was founded by the Anglo-Saxons and was always ours until the Scots came and stole it off us in 1068. Even today, the imperialist Scots think it's theirs -
THE TOWN ON THE SCOTTISH BORDER
On the mainland five miles north of Holy Island, is the mouth of the River Tweed and the most historic town of Berwick Upon Tweed. The most northerly town in England, perhaps no other town in North East England has had a more eventful history than Berwick. There is no doubt that Berwick upon Tweed can claim the distinction of being the Border Town, as it has changed hands between England and Scotland thirteen times. Its history is inextricably tied up with the struggle for the Anglo Scottish frontier. An old legend is said to explain the fascinating history of Berwick;
"During the temptation while the Evil one was showing to the Holy one all the kingdoms of the earth he kept Berwick hidden beneath his thumb, wishing to reserve it as his own little nook"
Berwick with an English name meaning `Corn Farm' began as a small settlement in the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Northumbria, in which it remained until the Battle of Carham of 1018 when it was taken by the Scots. From then on Berwick became a hotly disputed territory. In 1174 Berwick was retaken by England in a ransom following the failure of a raid into Northumberland by the Scottish king, William the Lion.
The town returned to the northern side of the border in the reign of Richard I (1189-1199), who sold it to obtain money for the Crusades. At the beginning of the following century Berwick returned once more to England, after Richard's brother, King John sacked the town, but Berwick continued to change hands until 1482 when the town finally became part of England within which it still (technically) remains.
Back to top of page.
ENGLISH OR SCOTTISH ?
Today the visitor to Berwick can be forgiven for believing it to be a Scottish town, as after all it stands on the northern bank of the River Tweed, an entirely Scottish river and it does seem to have a rather Scottish appearance. Berwick is also the name of a large Scottish Burgh and the old county of Berwickshire (of which Berwick was not part !) was in Scotland. Furthermore Berwick, is a little bit more closer to the Scottish capital of Edinburgh, than to the North East's regional centre of Newcastle upon Tyne.
The belief that Berwick is Scottish is also reinforced by the fact that most of the commercial banks in the town are Scottish and that the local football team plays in the Scottish league. Dialect also leads to the belief that Berwick is Scottish as to most Englishmen the local `Tweedside' accent spoken in Berwick sounds Scottish, although most Scots would recognise the Northumbrian influence.
The Scottish claim for Berwick is certainly strong but the English influence upon the area is also very significant. Berwick as already stated began as an English or at least an Anglo-Saxon settlement, in the Kingdom of Northumbria and although for four hundred years it regularly changed hands between England and Scotland it has remained in the former part of the United Kingdom for the past five centuries. Berwick's policeman and laws are therefore English, and its most senior councillor is an English mayor not a provost as in the Scottish system of local government. Berwick town also has an important status, as the administrative centre for the Northumberland County District of Berwick upon Tweed, which includes the Farne islands, Lindisfarne and the very Northumbrian villages of Wooler, Bamburgh and Belford.
http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/BerwickuponTweed.htm
Many people reject all claims that Cornwall is, or ought to be, distinct from England. While recognising that there are local peculiarisms, they point out that Yorkshire, Kent, and Cheshire (for example) also have local customs and identities that do not seem to undermine their essential Englishness. The legal claims concerning the Duchy, they argue, are without merit except as relics of mediaeval feudalism, and they contend that Stannary law applied not to Cornwall as a 'nation', but merely to the guild of tin miners. Rather, they argue that Cornwall has been not only in English possession, but part of England itself, either since Athelstan conquered it in 936, since the administrative centralisation of the Tudor dynasty, or since the creation of Cornwall County Council in 1888. Finally, they agree with representatives of the Duchy itself that the Duchy is, in essence, a real estate company that serves to raise income for the Prince of Wales. They compare the situation of the Duchy of Cornwall with that of the Duchy of Lancaster, which has similar rights in Lancashire, which is indisputably part of England. However, it must be remembered that the use of the Duchy name and its expansion to provide an income for the Heir Apparent does not effect the ancient rights of Cornwall, especially because it can be in the interests of the Duchy and the Prince of Wales to ignore those rights
The proponents of such perspectives include not only Unionists, but most branches and agencies of government.
answers.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
The town was founded by the Anglo-Saxons and was always ours until the Scots came and stole it off us in 1068. Even today, the imperialist Scots think it's theirs -
THE TOWN ON THE SCOTTISH BORDER
On the mainland five miles north of Holy Island, is the mouth of the River Tweed and the most historic town of Berwick Upon Tweed. The most northerly town in England, perhaps no other town in North East England has had a more eventful history than Berwick. There is no doubt that Berwick upon Tweed can claim the distinction of being the Border Town, as it has changed hands between England and Scotland thirteen times. Its history is inextricably tied up with the struggle for the Anglo Scottish frontier. An old legend is said to explain the fascinating history of Berwick;
"During the temptation while the Evil one was showing to the Holy one all the kingdoms of the earth he kept Berwick hidden beneath his thumb, wishing to reserve it as his own little nook"
Berwick with an English name meaning `Corn Farm' began as a small settlement in the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Northumbria, in which it remained until the Battle of Carham of 1018 when it was taken by the Scots. From then on Berwick became a hotly disputed territory. In 1174 Berwick was retaken by England in a ransom following the failure of a raid into Northumberland by the Scottish king, William the Lion.
The town returned to the northern side of the border in the reign of Richard I (1189-1199), who sold it to obtain money for the Crusades. At the beginning of the following century Berwick returned once more to England, after Richard's brother, King John sacked the town, but Berwick continued to change hands until 1482 when the town finally became part of England within which it still (technically) remains.
Back to top of page.
ENGLISH OR SCOTTISH ?
Today the visitor to Berwick can be forgiven for believing it to be a Scottish town, as after all it stands on the northern bank of the River Tweed, an entirely Scottish river and it does seem to have a rather Scottish appearance. Berwick is also the name of a large Scottish Burgh and the old county of Berwickshire (of which Berwick was not part !) was in Scotland. Furthermore Berwick, is a little bit more closer to the Scottish capital of Edinburgh, than to the North East's regional centre of Newcastle upon Tyne.
The belief that Berwick is Scottish is also reinforced by the fact that most of the commercial banks in the town are Scottish and that the local football team plays in the Scottish league. Dialect also leads to the belief that Berwick is Scottish as to most Englishmen the local `Tweedside' accent spoken in Berwick sounds Scottish, although most Scots would recognise the Northumbrian influence.
The Scottish claim for Berwick is certainly strong but the English influence upon the area is also very significant. Berwick as already stated began as an English or at least an Anglo-Saxon settlement, in the Kingdom of Northumbria and although for four hundred years it regularly changed hands between England and Scotland it has remained in the former part of the United Kingdom for the past five centuries. Berwick's policeman and laws are therefore English, and its most senior councillor is an English mayor not a provost as in the Scottish system of local government. Berwick town also has an important status, as the administrative centre for the Northumberland County District of Berwick upon Tweed, which includes the Farne islands, Lindisfarne and the very Northumbrian villages of Wooler, Bamburgh and Belford.
http://www.thenortheast.fsnet.co.uk/BerwickuponTweed.htm
"Berwick, with an ENGLISH name meaning `Corn Farm' began as a small settlement in the ANGLO-SAXON KINGDOM OF NORTHUMBRIA, in which it remained until the Battle of Carham of 1018 WHEN IT WAS TAKEN BY THE SCOTS. From then on Berwick became a hotly disputed territory. In 1174 Berwick was retaken by England in a ransom following the failure of a raid into Northumberland by the Scottish king, William the Lion. "
So what right have the Scots to claim it?
So what right have the Scots to claim it?
***So what right have the Scots to claim it?***
Every right under the Alban sun......it is legitimately a Scottish town....go to Berwick some time, Adam, and you'd be forgiven for thinking you'd actually crossed the border already. Your English accent would be in the minority. The only inkling you'd have for confirmation that you're still actually in England would be the references on local authority signs saying Northumberland County Council....even if the bank next door says the Royal Bank of Scotland and most of the road signs point to Edinburgh or Jedburgh or Eyemouth or Dunbar or Kelso.......ignore those pointing south to Alnwick and Morpeth and Newcastle.....they are ALL on the other side of the true border...the River Tweed...the historic eastern border between Scotland and England.
Every right under the Alban sun......it is legitimately a Scottish town....go to Berwick some time, Adam, and you'd be forgiven for thinking you'd actually crossed the border already. Your English accent would be in the minority. The only inkling you'd have for confirmation that you're still actually in England would be the references on local authority signs saying Northumberland County Council....even if the bank next door says the Royal Bank of Scotland and most of the road signs point to Edinburgh or Jedburgh or Eyemouth or Dunbar or Kelso.......ignore those pointing south to Alnwick and Morpeth and Newcastle.....they are ALL on the other side of the true border...the River Tweed...the historic eastern border between Scotland and England.
***No you're wrong again Adam from Bolton !*** (as quoted by Kenwyn)
Adam from Bolton......sounds guid......let's make it sound as if you've just stepped out of a medieval type Robin Hood saga.......Adam de Bolton, the dastardly Robber Baron of Bolton, near Pendle Hill where the witches come from.
Adam from Bolton......sounds guid......let's make it sound as if you've just stepped out of a medieval type Robin Hood saga.......Adam de Bolton, the dastardly Robber Baron of Bolton, near Pendle Hill where the witches come from.