poor boy, God will apologize you.....
Amen
Amen
Russkij jazyk na latinitse
Dear Linguist,
Let's look at it from a different angle.
"On the other hand Russia still depends on Europe and the USA and it is still a little sister in business and this means much more even then in politics. America and Europe invest quite a lot of money in Russian economics, give many workplaces for Russian citizens and by the way not everyone considers himself Russian. Many people speak Tatar, Bashkir, Azerbaijani and countless other languages, and everyone wants to learn English and emigrate. There is endless fighting in the Caucasus, and you know you will never win. Across the southern border there are millions of Chinamen patiently watching the deserting vast Siberian land and waiting for their time to come. You can love and scream about your great Russia but reality doesn't show this"
A load of bullcrap you are, Linguist.
Let's look at it from a different angle.
"On the other hand Russia still depends on Europe and the USA and it is still a little sister in business and this means much more even then in politics. America and Europe invest quite a lot of money in Russian economics, give many workplaces for Russian citizens and by the way not everyone considers himself Russian. Many people speak Tatar, Bashkir, Azerbaijani and countless other languages, and everyone wants to learn English and emigrate. There is endless fighting in the Caucasus, and you know you will never win. Across the southern border there are millions of Chinamen patiently watching the deserting vast Siberian land and waiting for their time to come. You can love and scream about your great Russia but reality doesn't show this"
A load of bullcrap you are, Linguist.
Drunkie, that may be true now, but the balance of power in the world is constantly changing. I wouldn't bet my life on USA still being a superpower at the end of this century. And Russia is Russia. People may not like it but it has a great potential.
Ed,
Yep, the era of Anglo-Saxon domination of the world will be coming to an end very soon - not that it makes me particularly happy, but it's a fact. And new countries will be coming to power. But Russia - no. Russia's 15 minutes of fame ended in late 20th century. Shrink and die - that's the perspective.
Yep, the era of Anglo-Saxon domination of the world will be coming to an end very soon - not that it makes me particularly happy, but it's a fact. And new countries will be coming to power. But Russia - no. Russia's 15 minutes of fame ended in late 20th century. Shrink and die - that's the perspective.
One more interesting example of script change is Konkani (one of the official languages in the Indian state of GOA).
During the Portuguese colonial regime, Konkani was written in Latin script. After the liberation, its script was changed from Portuguese-based Latin script to Devanagari script.
Today, the official languages of Goa are 1. Hindi (written in Devanagari script); 2. Konkani (written in Devanagari script); 3. English (written in Latin script)
Institution like Kala Akademi stopped giving awards for
Konknani Books in Roman script.
During the Portuguese colonial regime, Konkani was written in Latin script. After the liberation, its script was changed from Portuguese-based Latin script to Devanagari script.
Today, the official languages of Goa are 1. Hindi (written in Devanagari script); 2. Konkani (written in Devanagari script); 3. English (written in Latin script)
Institution like Kala Akademi stopped giving awards for
Konknani Books in Roman script.
Je ne pense pas que la Russie deviendra un nain. Politiquement, c'est peu probable. Économiquement c'est impossible puisqu'elle a atteint son niveau le plus bas et ne peut que redécoller (ce que je lui souhaite).
Démographiquement, c'est un autre problème. La Российская Федерация (Fédération de Russie) perd des habitants chaque année. Le taux de natalité est en-dessous de 9 ‰ tandis que le taux de mortalité dépasse les 15 ‰ (indice de fécondité : 1,2 enfant par femme en âge de procréer). Les chiffres pour l'Allemagne (dont la population baisse le plus en Europe) sont 9 ‰ et 10 ‰ (fécondité : 1,4). Les chiffres de l'Espagne sont un peu meilleurs : natalité = mortalité = 9 ‰ (mais fécondité = 1,2 comme en Russie). En France la natalité est à 13 ‰, la mortalité à 9 ‰ et la fécondité à 1,9.
Voici l'évolution dépographique de la Russie entre 1992 et 2003 : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Russia-demography.png .
Aujourd'hui la population de la France fait 45 % de celle de la Russie. En 2050, certaines projections font monter le pourcentage à 60 %. Que fait le gouvernement russe pour favoriser la remontée de la natalité ?
Démographiquement, c'est un autre problème. La Российская Федерация (Fédération de Russie) perd des habitants chaque année. Le taux de natalité est en-dessous de 9 ‰ tandis que le taux de mortalité dépasse les 15 ‰ (indice de fécondité : 1,2 enfant par femme en âge de procréer). Les chiffres pour l'Allemagne (dont la population baisse le plus en Europe) sont 9 ‰ et 10 ‰ (fécondité : 1,4). Les chiffres de l'Espagne sont un peu meilleurs : natalité = mortalité = 9 ‰ (mais fécondité = 1,2 comme en Russie). En France la natalité est à 13 ‰, la mortalité à 9 ‰ et la fécondité à 1,9.
Voici l'évolution dépographique de la Russie entre 1992 et 2003 : http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Russia-demography.png .
Aujourd'hui la population de la France fait 45 % de celle de la Russie. En 2050, certaines projections font monter le pourcentage à 60 %. Que fait le gouvernement russe pour favoriser la remontée de la natalité ?
Greg, tu as raison, la situation est assez grave, mais quand tu regardes ce graphique, on doit avoir en vue que beaucoup de gens ont quitté la Russie et ont immigré à l'Amerique ou dans les autres pays. Il y a beaucoup d'immigrantes a Russie aussi; ils sont de l'ex-URSS en plus part, et l'image ethnique se change vite. Maintenant il y a les villages chines par example ou les quartiers pour les géorgiens etc. La Russie vivra, je suis sûr mais cette Russie perdra sa culture, peut-être sa langue. je sais qu'est-ce que ce passe en France, les bagarres entre les français et les immigrantes....
Car je vis ici, je peux te dire que les choses s'ameliorent dans tout les aspects de la vie, je crois en avenir:)
Ed, I agree with you about potential, Russia cooperates with India, China and Brazil (have your heard about BRIC?), so this union is likely to be another world center, especially in economics. And as Russia has the best nuclear weapon which brakes the safety American system, it will play a certain role in the world.
Car je vis ici, je peux te dire que les choses s'ameliorent dans tout les aspects de la vie, je crois en avenir:)
Ed, I agree with you about potential, Russia cooperates with India, China and Brazil (have your heard about BRIC?), so this union is likely to be another world center, especially in economics. And as Russia has the best nuclear weapon which brakes the safety American system, it will play a certain role in the world.
Linguist : mais moi aussi je suis persuadé que la Russie s'en sortira bien. C'est d'ailleurs l'intérêt de l'Europe entière. Tu crois sérieusement que la Russie perdra sa langue ? Moi, j'ai du mal à y croire. Regarde en France, l'immigration n'a pas porté péjudice à la langue française. Bien au contraire ! Pourquoi ce serait différent en Russie ?
(NB : bravo pour ton français ! T'es déjà venu en France ?)
(NB : bravo pour ton français ! T'es déjà venu en France ?)
" je sais qu'est-ce que ce passe en France, les bagarres entre les français et les immigrantes.... "
Tu parles sans doute vue les problèmes de Seine-Saint-Denis à la télé, ce ne sont absolument pas des affrontements entre les Français et les immigrés, mais entre des jeunes désoeuvrés des quartiers pauvres (des français) contre les réprésentants de l'Etat (policiers, pompiers etc.) (des Français aussi).
Tu parles sans doute vue les problèmes de Seine-Saint-Denis à la télé, ce ne sont absolument pas des affrontements entre les Français et les immigrés, mais entre des jeunes désoeuvrés des quartiers pauvres (des français) contre les réprésentants de l'Etat (policiers, pompiers etc.) (des Français aussi).
Greg, merci beaucoup, j'essaye d'écrire sans les fautes mais il est encore difficile parler pour moi , c'est une autre chose tout à fait.....
Tu sais, les immigrantes sont ignorants de toutes les choses culturelles, ils vivent dans ses "cellules" et l'environnement éxterieur les parait hostile, ils pensent que les habitants locaux ne les aiment pas etc, et c'est pourquoi ils conservent leur culture, et ne veulent pas apprendre la langue de pays où ils habitent ou ils le parle assez mal, je vois cette situation et car la quantité des immigrantes augente vite, il y a une menace ici...et Le Français est une langue plus facile pour apprendre que le russe pour la majorité de gens...
Tu sais, les immigrantes sont ignorants de toutes les choses culturelles, ils vivent dans ses "cellules" et l'environnement éxterieur les parait hostile, ils pensent que les habitants locaux ne les aiment pas etc, et c'est pourquoi ils conservent leur culture, et ne veulent pas apprendre la langue de pays où ils habitent ou ils le parle assez mal, je vois cette situation et car la quantité des immigrantes augente vite, il y a une menace ici...et Le Français est une langue plus facile pour apprendre que le russe pour la majorité de gens...
"In Ukrainian, Latin transliteration even more messy. Some Ukrainians use the Latin transliteration system coined on the Polish one, some coined on the Russian one; I think them both pretty trashy. "
:))
The better way is use ready-to-use translit services, for example http://www.latkey.com/translit_service.asp
No mess, no misunderstanding, no such discussion, and it is free :-)
And quite easy for PDA.
And I agree it is irritating to write SMS, for the time present...
:))
The better way is use ready-to-use translit services, for example http://www.latkey.com/translit_service.asp
No mess, no misunderstanding, no such discussion, and it is free :-)
And quite easy for PDA.
And I agree it is irritating to write SMS, for the time present...
English: if you can russian lenguage than this site is something for you:
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php
From downloading small programs to GIANT GAMES... Post this between your russian friends and the site will grow...
but now i am going to download "Need For Speed: Most Wanted" bb =)
Russian: Novyj sait sozdan "MaHeTa" (manetoj) vse 4to vam nado...
nuzni programmy vy ih najdete zdes:
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php?do=cat&category=programmy
nuzny igry? vy ih najdete zdes:
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php?do=cat&category=igry
nu nu ja po6el ska4ivat NFS most wanted
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php
From downloading small programs to GIANT GAMES... Post this between your russian friends and the site will grow...
but now i am going to download "Need For Speed: Most Wanted" bb =)
Russian: Novyj sait sozdan "MaHeTa" (manetoj) vse 4to vam nado...
nuzni programmy vy ih najdete zdes:
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php?do=cat&category=programmy
nuzny igry? vy ih najdete zdes:
http://www.sumgum.com/index.php?do=cat&category=igry
nu nu ja po6el ska4ivat NFS most wanted
Vytenis a ti sam to govorish po russky?
Kvaker privet kak dela? ti chasto tut bivaesh?
Kvaker privet kak dela? ti chasto tut bivaesh?
Hi all.
Russian language has unified system of transliteration. So, its words can be written with Latin symbols.
Sometimes it's necessary to use latin characters (some people visit russian forums while living in other countries, and russian keyboard isn't always available). Moreover, some mobile phones doesn't support cyrillic fonts. According to these reasons, it's important to have system of transliteration. But current one, which is recognized in our country, isn't comfortable - Russian alphabet has 33 symbols, but English one has only 26. Some sounds of our tongue, which may be written using only one cyrillic symbol (e.g. [zh], [sh], [sch], [ch], [ts], [ju], [ja]), don't have equivalents in English alphabet. In words, which include such sounds, letter combinations are needed. E.g. russian equivalent to word "feelings" has 8 letters (ощущения), but "latin" version of this word in more long: oshhushhenija. It includes 13 symbols instead of 8!
I know one way of solving this problem. Cyrillic letters may be replaced with latin ones using the following rule:
[sh] = W (with firm vowels)
[sch] = W (with soft vowels)
[zh] = X
[ts] = C (with firm vowels)
[ch] = C (with soft vowels)
However, that letters don't have recemblances with symbols X,C,W; and pronounciation of russian words won't be clear for Europeans. But that rule makes words shorter (e.g. word "feelings", which was mentioned before, will be written as "Owüweniä").
Russian vowels [ja], [jo], [ju] have no equivalents in English alphabet as well. For example, letter "Ю" [ju] is pronounced like a whole Eng. word "YOU". I suggest to replace these letters with sumbols of extended latin script:
[ju] = "Ü"
[ja] = "Ä"
[jo] = "Ö"
Replace sound [æ] with letter combination "ay".
Such symbols are included in German keyboard; but if only English one is available, U,A,O may be used instead (meaning of words will be clear anyways).
Other symbols (firm sign, soft sign, letter J) may be replaced with "J".
Everything which was said above - IMHO :) It's even not a petition to Russian Academy of Science (I doubt that they'll read this message :)). But I think, that this idea is more advantageos that the current system of transliteration.
Here's a part of Russian song, written with "new" transliteration:
Ja pomnü vsö, o cöm my mecjtali,
No xiznj ne dlä teh, kto lübit sny.
My sliwkom dolgo vyhod iskali,
No wli beskonecjno vdolj steny.
Ja lübil i nenavidel,
No teperj duwa pusta.
Vsö iscezlo, ne ostaviv i sleda,
I ne znaet boli v grudi oskolok ljda.
English translation:
I keep in mind everything we dreamed about,
But life isn’t intended for those who love sleep,
We were finding the exit for a too long time,
But we were walking along the wall infinitely.
I was in love, and I hated,
But now my soul is empty.
Everything is faded, and it didn’t remain any sign,
And a splinter of ice doesn’t feel the pain.
I apologize for the long post.
Best regards.
Russian language has unified system of transliteration. So, its words can be written with Latin symbols.
Sometimes it's necessary to use latin characters (some people visit russian forums while living in other countries, and russian keyboard isn't always available). Moreover, some mobile phones doesn't support cyrillic fonts. According to these reasons, it's important to have system of transliteration. But current one, which is recognized in our country, isn't comfortable - Russian alphabet has 33 symbols, but English one has only 26. Some sounds of our tongue, which may be written using only one cyrillic symbol (e.g. [zh], [sh], [sch], [ch], [ts], [ju], [ja]), don't have equivalents in English alphabet. In words, which include such sounds, letter combinations are needed. E.g. russian equivalent to word "feelings" has 8 letters (ощущения), but "latin" version of this word in more long: oshhushhenija. It includes 13 symbols instead of 8!
I know one way of solving this problem. Cyrillic letters may be replaced with latin ones using the following rule:
[sh] = W (with firm vowels)
[sch] = W (with soft vowels)
[zh] = X
[ts] = C (with firm vowels)
[ch] = C (with soft vowels)
However, that letters don't have recemblances with symbols X,C,W; and pronounciation of russian words won't be clear for Europeans. But that rule makes words shorter (e.g. word "feelings", which was mentioned before, will be written as "Owüweniä").
Russian vowels [ja], [jo], [ju] have no equivalents in English alphabet as well. For example, letter "Ю" [ju] is pronounced like a whole Eng. word "YOU". I suggest to replace these letters with sumbols of extended latin script:
[ju] = "Ü"
[ja] = "Ä"
[jo] = "Ö"
Replace sound [æ] with letter combination "ay".
Such symbols are included in German keyboard; but if only English one is available, U,A,O may be used instead (meaning of words will be clear anyways).
Other symbols (firm sign, soft sign, letter J) may be replaced with "J".
Everything which was said above - IMHO :) It's even not a petition to Russian Academy of Science (I doubt that they'll read this message :)). But I think, that this idea is more advantageos that the current system of transliteration.
Here's a part of Russian song, written with "new" transliteration:
Ja pomnü vsö, o cöm my mecjtali,
No xiznj ne dlä teh, kto lübit sny.
My sliwkom dolgo vyhod iskali,
No wli beskonecjno vdolj steny.
Ja lübil i nenavidel,
No teperj duwa pusta.
Vsö iscezlo, ne ostaviv i sleda,
I ne znaet boli v grudi oskolok ljda.
English translation:
I keep in mind everything we dreamed about,
But life isn’t intended for those who love sleep,
We were finding the exit for a too long time,
But we were walking along the wall infinitely.
I was in love, and I hated,
But now my soul is empty.
Everything is faded, and it didn’t remain any sign,
And a splinter of ice doesn’t feel the pain.
I apologize for the long post.
Best regards.