Romanian Grammar

SpookyET   Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:18 pm GMT
http://www.seelrc.org:8080/grammar/pdf/compgrammar_romanian.pdf
It's written for English speakers.

There are grammar files more languages in the directory: http://www.seelrc.org:8080/grammar/pdf/

In year 106, Dacia was finally conquered by the Roman legion from Campania, Italy. However, unlike the Spaniards, Gaols, etc., who relatively kept their culture under Roman rule, the Dacians were unable, and were heavily romanised. Maybe, most of the Dacian males died in the war. Maybe, they were demoralised and accepted their fate. In any case, after the Romans have left, we've lost our culture. There is little known about the culture of Dacia. Unlike other parts of Europe, we didn't just become citizens of Rome, we became Romans. That's why an inhabitant of România is a Român and speaks Limba Română. Probably, 99% of us are white, with dark hair and brown eyes since the Roman legion was from southern Italy. In Romanian, the difference between Roman and Romanian is half a syllable.

We speak a romance language. Many sources, including the linked document, claim that Romanian is the closest language to Latin. Grammatically, it’s virtually identical (there are a few exceptions). The reason for that is that it was not influenced by the Germanic tribes, and the region has been geographically isolated. It's also very conservative.
There are those who believe that Romanian was a Romance language from the start. At the same time, there are those who believe that it is a "made up" language because in the 19th century, Slavonic influences were removed.

Both camps are right. I agree that once we spoke Latin. Eventually, the Latin spoken has disintegrated into what we have today. I disagree that the language is "made up". That term is severely exaggerated. I prefer the term "artificially adjusted." The Russians and the Magyars have always wanted to colonise Romania. The best example is what happened in Moldova. Since it fell under the USSR, they tried to brainwash the inhabitants of Moldova to think that they were not Latin, not Romanian. They changed written Romanian from the Latin alphabet to the Cyrillic alphabet. Today, they speak Romanian with a Russian accent. It sounds Slavonic. Romanian on TV sounds like Italian.

In the 19th century, the authors of that time felt that we were losing our identity for the second time. So, they incorporated a lot of Italian and French words into the language. Today, 75%-85% of Romanian words come from Latin. The Slavonic words are not used anymore. They are archaic, kept in the dictionary for backwards compatibility reasons. When a child the childhood stories of Ion Creangă, he can look up Slavonic words in the dictionary. Granted, peasants in the middle of the Carpathian Mountains or in the border regions may still speak with Slavonic words. It’s very hard for urban people to understand them. The reason for that is that they have no education or very limited education: 4 grades. Even Slavonic words are badly pronounced.

I've read the Neacşu letter from 1521 (it's the oldest record of written Romanian). It is very easy to read. It is not Shakespearean. Whatever artificial changes it had in the 19th century, they weren’t that severe.

However, Romanian is artificially conservative. The Romanian Academy, a government mandated agency has despotic control over the language. When they publish a new dictionary, as they did this year, the very next day, TV stations, newspapers, government orders are written with the new spelling and grammar rules. School manuals change after one year. I disagree with that. I do not believe that 4-5 people in charge of the dictionary should have control over a language spoken by millions. As far as I know, they are not elected, at least not directly by the people.

I believe that in the near future, Romanian will be even closer to Italian. The Romanians are the largest legal and illegal minority in Italy. They go there because Italian and Romanian are mutually indelible. They are very close. I’ve been hearing “amor” (Latin) more than I’ve been hearing “iubesc” (Slavic) lately. However, I doubt that the Italians will accept our insanely complicated Classic Latin grammar rules. They were able to get rid of them and simplify the Italian language.

PS: I’m not a linguist. I found this forum via Google while I was searching about Romanian. I’ve spent more time outside of Romania. I don’t speak it correctly. I have limited grammar knowledge. But, Romanians are language Nazis. One receives remarks such as, “Where have you learnt 5th grade grammar, with the toilet cleaning lady?” Gladly, I was able to find that document. According to different articles, for an English speaker, it takes about 2.5-3 years to learn Romanian. Probably, because of that we don’t have a lot of immigrants. Being so close to Latin is not always a good thing. You’ll be able to have small talk after that time, not write a research paper. It takes about a year to learn Italian or French.
ion   Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:20 pm GMT
And? What's your point? You made here some true statements but quit a few wrong, as well. Therefore, to find out more about Romanian language and Romanian history you need to leave the limited and not always reliable internet sources and move your chair into the libraries to contact the most reliable sources there..

By the way, Romanians are not 99% with dark hair and brown eyes. Many of them have dark blond and blue (or green) eyes as well...And are usually taller than the brunette type. They came exactly from the regions where the free dacians had been living: Moldavia and Maramures.

The Dacians, as per Herodotus descriptions, were tall, good build, blond with blue eyes. The blond type of Dacians (Thracians) was different than the Slavic (pale ) or Germanic (white) ones. The hair colour was a tanned blond and they have tanned faces, (see Spartacus).

The Romanians are the "language Nazis"... What is this supposed to mean? What do you want to say? Because we try to correct wrong statements made by different dilettantes on this forum, we are acting like Nazis in your opinion? I'm sorry but I personally thought that, when somebody addresses an question , he expects the right and correct answer for it...

If this is not what these forum is meant for, I apologise in my name and recommend you to feel free and do whatever you want; believe whatever you like about Romanian, Polish, Russian, Albanian etc. Don't ever think though, that it is anybody out there knowing about Romanian Language more, than a Romanian linguist, because in this case, you are totally wrong!

Best personal regards!

Ion P
SpookyET   Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:40 pm GMT
I made no point. I just wrote some statements.

The 99% was an exaggeration. However, I have not seen a single blonde Romanian in Vrancea, where I was born.

I stand by the "language Nazis" statement. Don't get me wrong, I expect to be corrected. I want to be corrected. That's the only way I'll learn it properly. I do not, however, expect derogatory remarks insulting my intelligence, such as the aforementioned quote.

I have no idea what you have meant by your last paragraph.
Ion   Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:53 pm GMT
SpookeyET,

1. The fact that you didn't see any Romanian blond in Vrancea, doesn't mean that:

- In Vrancea, Romanian blonds don't exist;

- Vreancea represents the base of reference for the Romanian typology.

2. I was confused in what I sai, in the last paragraph; I apologise! I tried to say that if this forum is not that serious as I initially thought and if the forummists don't really want to know about languages, then you have the liberty to believe whatever you want about all the languages brought up in these discussions.

3. I'm probably taking too serious the people's questions and try to participate with as correct information as I can. That may make you call me (and the others like me), the Nazi of the language.

The term NAZI is not appropriate because I (and I believe, that other Romanians which I've noticed being on the forum, as well), never considered Romanian a superior language, never disregarded other's people languages ; never manifest any kind of discrimination...at least, nothing what I'm aware of.

4. Maybe Brennus is right, we might be snobs!
SpookyET   Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:04 pm GMT
Brennus,

That's what I meant.

Ion,

The Nazi statement was not directed at you. It was a general statement about the attitude of Romanians (educated and uneducated) when one speaks incorrectly in making derogatory comments instead of silently correcting that person.

I think this old aviation joke fits:

The German air controllers at Frankfurt Airport are a short-tempered lot. They not only expect one to know one's gate parking location but how to get there without any assistance from them. So it was with some amusement that we (a PanAm 747) listened to the following exchange between Frankfurt ground control and a British Airways 747 (call sign "Speedbird 206") after landing:

Speedbird 206: "Top of the morning Frankfurt, Speedbird 206 clear of the active runway."

Ground: "Guten morgen! You vill taxi to your gate!" The big British Airways 747 pulled onto the main taxiway and slowed to a stop.

Ground: "Speedbird, do you not know vare you are going?"

Speedbird 206: "Stand by a moment ground, I'm looking up our gate location now."

Ground (with some arrogant impatience): "Speedbird 206, haff you never flown to Frankfurt before?!?"

Speedbird 206 (coolly): "Yes I have, several times in 1944. In another type of Boeing. It was night-time at 20,000 feet, and I didn't stop."
Ion   Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:21 pm GMT
SpookyET

THank you! Understood! Nice joke!

Alles Gute!
Ion   Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:42 pm GMT
Brennus

I understood what you meant...and you're totally right!
SpookyET   Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:50 pm GMT
What don't you like about Romanian? Personally, I don't like ă, î, â. I find them harder to pronounce than the original Latin words.
todosmentira   Sat Dec 02, 2006 8:45 pm GMT
<What don't you like about Romanian? Personally, I don't like ă, î, â. I find them harder to pronounce than the original Latin words.>

Really? - spookyET you must be very, very old..
SpookyET   Sun Dec 03, 2006 1:10 am GMT
I'm not old.
augustin717   Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:30 am GMT
I'm sorry to say that, but SpookyET, you are talking SPOOKY NONSENSE.
Ion   Tue Dec 05, 2006 6:39 pm GMT
Augustin 717

No more than you, be sure about that! Esti patetic, mestere! Mi-e mila de tine!
Guest   Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:07 pm GMT
Draga Ioane,
Cind te avinti si zici-asa cum ai zis- ca romana a mostenit cuvintul "jubileu" din latina si altele "ejusdem farinae", nu dovedeste aceasta o necunoastere elementara a istoriei limbii romanesti, si a domeniilor conexe?

"I believe that in the near future, Romanian will be even closer to Italian. The Romanians are the largest legal and illegal minority in Italy. They go there because Italian and Romanian are mutually indelible. They are very close. I’ve been hearing “amor” (Latin) more than I’ve been hearing “iubesc” (Slavic) lately. However, I doubt that the Italians will accept our insanely complicated Classic Latin grammar rules. They were able to get rid of them and simplify the Italian language. "

Sau panseul asta incoerent si vrednic de ris, ca si cind mersul limbii romane ar fi dat de muncitorii vlahi din Italia?
Sau ca si cum "amor" ar fi sinonimul lui "iubesc", trecind peste faptul ca morfologic, cele doua cuvinte apartin unor categorii gramaticale deosebite?
Ion   Tue Dec 05, 2006 7:47 pm GMT
Guest,

Cine a spus asa ceva? Cred ca ma confunzi! I never said that!
SpookyET   Tue Dec 05, 2006 11:39 pm GMT
I don't know what to say to that. I think your English isn't that great. I'll abstain.