who cares ? French are mixed race of frank, celt, roman and others europeans. They speak a romance tongue, but that doesn't define their "origin".
Frankish language in France
<<Yes, it it important. I ask again the question: do you believe that the native indians of Central America or the andean mountains descend from Germanics because they wear spanish names of germanic origins?
>>
So then, like the conquering Spaniards who imposed their language and culture on the natives, you are agreeing that the French also by taking German names, gave in to the speech and culture of the Franks, the Burgundians.
<<Are you joking? Or stupid ? Why do black Americans have English names then? Are they all descendants of the English people? >>
Instead of answering a question with more questions, why don't you present facts?
<<This is precisely what differs between yourself and us.>>
Who is "us"? You and your boyfriend greg?
<<You are convinced of something and I am sure of nothing.>>
I beg to differ. You actions bewray you ;)
<<What I point out is that a name doesn't always means an origin>>
This basic premise is clear and understood. You worth frustrated for no sake.
But oftentimes, it *can* and *does* mean origin. Sure, an American may name their child with a Japanese name to be cool, but this is definitely not the norm.
<<and that we see multitudes of historical exemples that say the inverse. >>
We do? where? anyway...
But this is inconclusive. It doesn't point to either one or the other. It only indicates a cultural supremacy, where one group is dominant over another. In such a fall, history also indicates that the ruling group genetically waters down that of conquered in a proportion outweighing its actual size (due to less competion from conquered males, conquered males' higher motality rate, promiscuity among dominant males producing numerous illegitimate offspring, etc)
<<" One hard fact is that the thousands of names in Northern France medieval name lists were Germanic. "
Well, do you sometimes relative of comparate what you claim?...
You speak of germanic names in MEDIEVAL lists in NORTHERN FRANCE as a indication of an heavy germanic identity of french people and language... (you could define a bit better what it is "northern france btw)...
Let's see 20 most common Spanish names in WHOLE MODERN SPAIN:
(including mediterranean part, Andalucia, etc.) in decreasing order
>>
Wow. What are you freaking out about. Are you 100% positive you do not have some sort of German prejudice or anti-German racism fueling your rants? Because you come off like you do. It's evident :\
>>
So then, like the conquering Spaniards who imposed their language and culture on the natives, you are agreeing that the French also by taking German names, gave in to the speech and culture of the Franks, the Burgundians.
<<Are you joking? Or stupid ? Why do black Americans have English names then? Are they all descendants of the English people? >>
Instead of answering a question with more questions, why don't you present facts?
<<This is precisely what differs between yourself and us.>>
Who is "us"? You and your boyfriend greg?
<<You are convinced of something and I am sure of nothing.>>
I beg to differ. You actions bewray you ;)
<<What I point out is that a name doesn't always means an origin>>
This basic premise is clear and understood. You worth frustrated for no sake.
But oftentimes, it *can* and *does* mean origin. Sure, an American may name their child with a Japanese name to be cool, but this is definitely not the norm.
<<and that we see multitudes of historical exemples that say the inverse. >>
We do? where? anyway...
But this is inconclusive. It doesn't point to either one or the other. It only indicates a cultural supremacy, where one group is dominant over another. In such a fall, history also indicates that the ruling group genetically waters down that of conquered in a proportion outweighing its actual size (due to less competion from conquered males, conquered males' higher motality rate, promiscuity among dominant males producing numerous illegitimate offspring, etc)
<<" One hard fact is that the thousands of names in Northern France medieval name lists were Germanic. "
Well, do you sometimes relative of comparate what you claim?...
You speak of germanic names in MEDIEVAL lists in NORTHERN FRANCE as a indication of an heavy germanic identity of french people and language... (you could define a bit better what it is "northern france btw)...
Let's see 20 most common Spanish names in WHOLE MODERN SPAIN:
(including mediterranean part, Andalucia, etc.) in decreasing order
>>
Wow. What are you freaking out about. Are you 100% positive you do not have some sort of German prejudice or anti-German racism fueling your rants? Because you come off like you do. It's evident :\
GARCIA (Basque), GONZALEZ(Germanic), FERNANDEZ(Germanic), RODRIGUEZ (Germanic), LOPEZ (?), MARTINEZ (Latin), SANCHEZ(Latin), PEREZ (Hebraic), MARTIN (Latin), GOMEZ (Germanic), JIMENEZ (Hebraic), RUIZ (French), HERNANDEZ (Germanic), DIAZ (Greek), MORENO (latin), ALVAREZ (Germanic), MUÑOZ (Latin), ROMERO (latin), ALONSO (Germanic), GUTIERREZ (Germanic)
Does Gutierrez derive fom Gut (good) or Got ( from the Goths) ? Thanks in advance. This is my first surname. I have a Basque one too but I don't find it as interesting.
Does Gutierrez derive fom Gut (good) or Got ( from the Goths) ? Thanks in advance. This is my first surname. I have a Basque one too but I don't find it as interesting.
<<Does Gutierrez derive fom Gut (good) or Got ( from the Goths) ? Thanks in advance. This is my first surname. I have a Basque one too but I don't find it as interesting. >>
I believe Gutierrez is a corruption of *Walt(j)eriks, meaning "son of Walter"
<<GARCIA (Basque)>>
Garcia ("son of Gerald") is a Spanish form of Gerald--germanic.
<<LOPEZ (?), >>
"son of Lope". It is from Latin Lupus ("wolf") + germanic -ez (< -iks) ending.
<<RUIZ (French), >>
patronymic from the personal name Ruy, a short form of Rodrigo = "son of Rodrigo"--germanic
<<DIAZ (Greek), >>
or Latin, from dies "day"
I believe Gutierrez is a corruption of *Walt(j)eriks, meaning "son of Walter"
<<GARCIA (Basque)>>
Garcia ("son of Gerald") is a Spanish form of Gerald--germanic.
<<LOPEZ (?), >>
"son of Lope". It is from Latin Lupus ("wolf") + germanic -ez (< -iks) ending.
<<RUIZ (French), >>
patronymic from the personal name Ruy, a short form of Rodrigo = "son of Rodrigo"--germanic
<<DIAZ (Greek), >>
or Latin, from dies "day"
Perez is son of Pero (peter in old Spanish) but I never heard that it was exclusively a Jew surname. Some noblemen had this surname back in the Middle Ages.
Romero is Germanic too I think. it's interesting that there are so many Germanic surnames Spanish. Probably it's due to the fact that the Goths became the lords of the lands in Christian Spain and people who were subject to them in a feudal system acquired the surnames of their lords. But what about the Hispano-Roman lineages?Did the rich patrician Roman families lose their properties after the Germanic invasion and their surnames?. It's kinda strange.
<<Perez is son of Pero >>
Yes. This would make is Greek, with the -ez ending applied.
<<Romero is Germanic too I think>>
Romero "pilgrim to Rome". hmmm. Not really German. Only if the -ero (-erro) means "inhabitant of" (cf. German Römer) then I would agree, but it still would default to Latin due to the "Rome" part.
Yes. This would make is Greek, with the -ez ending applied.
<<Romero is Germanic too I think>>
Romero "pilgrim to Rome". hmmm. Not really German. Only if the -ero (-erro) means "inhabitant of" (cf. German Römer) then I would agree, but it still would default to Latin due to the "Rome" part.
Spanish surnames of Germanic origin:Guerrero,Borges,Correa,Franco,Guzman,Mariscal,Marqués,Galante,Galardón
NAPOLEONE: Rare Italian name traditionally translated as "lion of Naples" but only because of its association with the name Napoli "Naples" and the word leone "lion." Etymologists now believe the name to be of Germanic origin, probably from elvish Nibelungen "sons of the mist," the name of a race of dwarfs; hence "elf, dwarf, Nibelung (son of the mist).
Napoleon was german :o)
http://enviedhistoire.canalblog.com/images/napoleon1.jpg
Look his blue eyes!!
Napoleon was german :o)
http://enviedhistoire.canalblog.com/images/napoleon1.jpg
Look his blue eyes!!
Romero "pilgrim to Rome". hmmm. Not really German. Only if the -ero (-erro) means "inhabitant of" (cf. German Römer) then I would agree, but it still would default to Latin due to the "Rome" part.
-er(o/a) also means inhabitant of in Spanish, for example Cartagenero (inhabitant of Cartagena).
-er(o/a) also means inhabitant of in Spanish, for example Cartagenero (inhabitant of Cartagena).
<<-er(o/a) also means inhabitant of in Spanish, for example Cartagenero (inhabitant of Cartagena). >>
ok, sweeet.
The English and German suffixes come from an old germanic ending *-warioz meaning "dwellers of" (OE -waras, as in Lundenwaras "Londoners", burgwaras "burghers", etc; OHG -ari as in Romari "Romans") from proto-germanic 'wer' "man"
I don't know how that applies to the Spanish suffix, or whether or not there is any associated influence or not.
ok, sweeet.
The English and German suffixes come from an old germanic ending *-warioz meaning "dwellers of" (OE -waras, as in Lundenwaras "Londoners", burgwaras "burghers", etc; OHG -ari as in Romari "Romans") from proto-germanic 'wer' "man"
I don't know how that applies to the Spanish suffix, or whether or not there is any associated influence or not.
<< LOPEZ
"son of Lope". It is from Latin Lupus ("wolf") + germanic -ez (< -iks) ending. >>
The -ez (or -es) ending is the mark of plural. It just means that people belonging to Lope's clan or stem are "the Lopez".
This is also the reason why there are so many second names ending with a -i in Italy, cause -i is the Italian plural mark.
Gutierrez (es) = Gualtieri (it)
Actually 'Lopez' is an archaic variant of 'Lobos'
<< <<Romero is Germanic too I think>>
Romero "pilgrim to Rome". hmmm. Not really German. >>
Indeed. Spanish suffix '-ero' is matched by Italian '-aio' or 'iero' and French 'ier' (also English '-ior' or "-or'). Nothing Germanic in it.
Guerrero
Guerriero
Guerrier
Warrior
"son of Lope". It is from Latin Lupus ("wolf") + germanic -ez (< -iks) ending. >>
The -ez (or -es) ending is the mark of plural. It just means that people belonging to Lope's clan or stem are "the Lopez".
This is also the reason why there are so many second names ending with a -i in Italy, cause -i is the Italian plural mark.
Gutierrez (es) = Gualtieri (it)
Actually 'Lopez' is an archaic variant of 'Lobos'
<< <<Romero is Germanic too I think>>
Romero "pilgrim to Rome". hmmm. Not really German. >>
Indeed. Spanish suffix '-ero' is matched by Italian '-aio' or 'iero' and French 'ier' (also English '-ior' or "-or'). Nothing Germanic in it.
Guerrero
Guerriero
Guerrier
Warrior
<<Gutierrez (es) = Gualtieri (it)
Actually 'Lopez' is an archaic variant of 'Lobos'
--------
Indeed. Spanish suffix '-ero' is matched by Italian '-aio' or 'iero' and French 'ier' (also English '-ior' or "-or'). Nothing Germanic in it.
>>
Instead of "matching" to other Modern languages, you need to research the SPANISH origin of these.
BTW, you're just guessing and drawing arbitrary conclusions based on limited/superficial information in order to satisfy a wrong desire.
Actually 'Lopez' is an archaic variant of 'Lobos'
--------
Indeed. Spanish suffix '-ero' is matched by Italian '-aio' or 'iero' and French 'ier' (also English '-ior' or "-or'). Nothing Germanic in it.
>>
Instead of "matching" to other Modern languages, you need to research the SPANISH origin of these.
BTW, you're just guessing and drawing arbitrary conclusions based on limited/superficial information in order to satisfy a wrong desire.
I think Ouest should conclude that Spain ibero-roman population has been heavily driven out by the so numerous germanic invaders?
I didn't see his answer to these observations.
" who cares ? French are mixed race of frank, celt, roman and others europeans. They speak a romance tongue, but that doesn't define their "origin". "
Yes, and Celts, Franks or Roman themselves were also mixed-race, they were defined and unified by the fact of speaking Celtic, Latin or germanic tongues. When people will understand that "celt", "germanic" and "latin" are cultural/linguistic terms and NOT racial ones, we would have make a great step in our comprehension of modern peoples and cultures.
I didn't see his answer to these observations.
" who cares ? French are mixed race of frank, celt, roman and others europeans. They speak a romance tongue, but that doesn't define their "origin". "
Yes, and Celts, Franks or Roman themselves were also mixed-race, they were defined and unified by the fact of speaking Celtic, Latin or germanic tongues. When people will understand that "celt", "germanic" and "latin" are cultural/linguistic terms and NOT racial ones, we would have make a great step in our comprehension of modern peoples and cultures.