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I speak fluent Brazilian Portuguese, fluent Croatian and Spanish (as well as so-so Italian). Some Turkish & Greek too.
Yeah....come to think of it..."Lusitanian" does sound quite a bit like a Slavic langugage. That overwhelming sound of "zh-sh-zh" really reminds one of Polish or even Croatian. The Azorians could be from Zakopane.
As far as Romanian and Slavs....well...anyone who has studied Romanian history would know that ethnic Slavs greatly contributed to the Romanian genetic pool (just like in Hungary). In fact, Slavs may have a bigger genetic presence in Romania...than Bulgaria or Montenegro.
I wouldn't be at all surprised that Wallachian-Moldavian-Bessarabian dialects were cleansed of Slavic rooted words....as the Romanian nationalists attempted to latinize their language in the 19th century....and emphasize their "Latin-Roman" connection. That was the norm at the time.
19th century literary languages were created in sinc with nationalistic ideals and ideas. In Romania's case...the "theme" was Latin & Roman, and Romanian nationalists often resided in "Latin" Paris. There nation-building theme was "Latin" and not at all...Slavic.
The leaders of the Italian Resurgimento were their "spiritual" contemporaries...so the whole idea of disassociating themselves from anything Slavic in order to assert themselves as different and emphasize the rightousness of their "Latinism" in the Balkans...only makes sense.
The same pattern of nationalistic language purification occurred throughout the new neighbouring states. Turkey is a case in mind. Ottoman Turkish is quite different from modern (and much "purified") Turkish.
In modern Turkey's case...the nationalistic "theme" was about the powerful Turks, Turanian pride and military prowess...etc.
Thus...you had the famous Kemalist campaign...encouraging "citizen speak Turkish". Many Anatolians (although identifying as Turks ethnically) were not native speakers of Ottoman or modern Turkish. At the same time, the area of modern Turkey was constantly being flooded by refugees from its diminishing empire...so the problem of countless ethnicities speaking countless langugages....was real.
Lastly, I must add that Brazilian Portuguese pronounciation is often very similar to the Italian and Spanish. Less swallowed vowels...clearer sounding overall.
Huge areas of Brazil were settled by Poles, Ukranians, Spaniards, Germans, Japanese...and of course...the phonetic heritage of all these peoples has had a huge effect on the Brazilian Portuguese pronounciation.
Particularly in the south of the country.
The pre-WW2 Portuguese accent of Sao Paulo is a case in point. It was quite different from the accent of rural Sao Paulo. Prior to WW2 the city of Sao Paulo (along with Buenos Aires) was one of the biggest "Italian" cities on earth.
Rio had a huge Portuguese immigration. The accent from Rio (which has now become omni-present via TV Globo & the soap operas) had much more of the Lusitanian "sh-zh" sound. Even today, old Paulistanos (unlike the younger generation which is more influenced by Rio's media houses) speak very clearly. (Much easier to comprehend....if you're studying Portuguese.)
Veneto (the province of Venice) was a major source of Brazil's Italian immigration. Even a few years ago...I'd come across southern Brazilians who still speak the "dialetto" of their great-grandparents: (Bento Goncalves, Caxias do Sul). And of course, their pronounciation was clearer and the "melody" of their Portuguese speech recalled their Venetian roots.
Sao Paulo has a huge population of Japanese origin. My girlfriend claims that the famous "Ne?" of the Paulistanos comes from Japanese.
In Portuguese it would be "nao e?"=Isn't it?. Paulistanos say "Ne?".
There isn't any doubt that the presence of other languages (any form of bilingualism) affects the accent of a population. (Just look at Brooklyn Jews, Irish & Italians.)
I often wondered why people in Sarajevo "sing" when they talk. There's a particular staccato to their speach. And then....they can't distinguish (especially the older generation) between "ch" and "tch". Then I kept reading history....history of Sarajevo....literary history....and came across the fact that for centuries that population was bi-lingual. They spoke at least Bosnian-Croatian+Ottoman Turkish...and often +Arabic+Persian.
In Turkish....there aren't 2 "ch-tch" sounds. Turkish has a rhythm that really reminds me of old Sarajevo's dialect.
It only made sense that this other languistic influence would be present....even a 100+ years after the Ottomans' departure.
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Resurgimento
it's Risorgimento
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"It is much bettter to not say anything and look stupid that to speak and eliminate any doubt" - aprox. cited: Mark Twain
The fragmets from below are written in the 16th century in Romanian. I analysed just one paragraph after the words origine and the results are shouing a level of Latin domination, much higher than it is showing today. The Scolars in the 19th century in fact contaminated the language by introducing French and Italian words, not necessary of Latin origin. That reduced the language latinity to 75% today.
See here the results of words origins in the texts which follow:
Latin origin = 88%
Slavic origin = 7.5%
Turkish = 2.5%
other =2%
,,Fostau acest Ştefan Vodă om nu mare la stat, mīnios şi degrabă vărsător de sīnge nevinovat; de multe ori la ospeţe omora fără judeţ. Altmiteri, era om īntreg la fire, neleneş, şi lucrul său īl ştia să-l acopere şi unde nu gīndeai acolo īl aflai. La lucruri de războaie meşter, unde era nevoie īnsuşi se vīra, că văzīndu-l ai săi, să nu se īndărăpteze şi pentru aceea rar război de nu biruia. Şi unde biruiau alţii, nu pierdea nădejdea, că silinduse căzut jos se ridica deasupra biruitorilor
Ce după moartea lui, pīnă astăzi īi zic sveti Ştefan Vodă, nu pentru suflet, ce este īn mīna lui Dumnezeu, că el īncă au fost om cu păcate, ci pentru lucrurile lui cele vitejeşti, carile nimenea din domni, nici mai īnainte, nici după aceea l-au ajuns." (G. Ureche cca 1600)
"I pak sa stii domnia ta ca are frica mare si Basarab de acel lotru de Mahamet beg, mai vartos de domniele voastre. I pak spui domnietale ca mai marele miu, de ce am inteles si eu. Eu spui domnietale, iara domnia ta esti intelept si aceste cuvinte ...( fragment from the letter of Neacsu of Campulung 1521)
Cāntecul lu David, cānd vine către-īnsul Nathan Proroc şi oblici el.
1. Miluiaşte-mă, Doamne, după mare mila Ta
2. şi după multe eftenşugurele Tale, curăţeaşte fără-legile meale.
3. Ce mai vārtosu mă lă de fără-legile meale şi de păcatele meale curăţeaşte-mă.
4. Că fără-legile meale eu ştiu şi păcatul mieu īntre mine iaste pururea.
5. Ţie unuia greşii şi hitlenşug īntre Tine feciu, ca să dereptezi-Te īn cuvintele Tale şi să īnvingi cānd veri judeca.
6. Adecă de fără-leage īnceputu-s şi īn păcate născu-mă muma mea.
7. Adecă deadevăr iubit-ai. Fără-veastea şi ascunsul māndrie Ta ivitu-mi-ai.
8. Stropişi-mă cu săpun şi curăţescu-mă. La-mă-veri şi mai vārtos de zăpada īnălbi-mă-voiu.
9. Auzului mieu dai bucurie şi veselie; bucură-se oasele plecate.
10. Īntoarce faţa Ta de păcatele meale şi īn toate fără-legile meale cură.
11. Inemă curată zideaşte īntru mine, Doamne, şi duh derept īnnoiaşte īntru zgăul mieu.
12. Nu lepăda mie de faţa Ta şi Duhul Sfānt al Tău nu lua de la mine.
13. Dă-mi bucuria spăsenia Ta şi Duhul Vlădicesc īntăreaşte-mă.
14. Īnvăţ fără-legile căilor Tale şi necuraţii către Tine īntoarce-se-vor.
15. Izbăveaşte-mă de strāmbi, Doamne, Dumnezeul spăseniei meale; bucură-se limba mea dereptăţiei Tale.
16. Doamne, rostulu-mi deşchide, ci rostul mieu spuse lauda Ta.
17. Că s-ai vrut vrea cumāndarea, da-o-vrea amu; toate arsele nu dulce vruşi.
18. Cumāndarea Zeului duh frāmt, inemă frāmtă şi plecată Dumnezeu nu chinuiaşte.
19. Fericează, Doamne, dulce voiei Tale Sionul, şi să se zidească păreţii Ierusalimului.
20. Atunce dulce vruşi cumāndarea dereptăţiei, īnălţarea toată spre ardere; atunce vor īnălţa spre altariul Tău viţei. (Corresi 1500-1600)
Anything else is just bla, bla, bla!
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"As far as Romanian and Slavs....well...anyone who has studied Romanian history would know that ethnic Slavs greatly contributed to the Romanian genetic pool (just like in Hungary). In fact, Slavs may have a bigger genetic presence in Romania...than Bulgaria or Montenegro. "
That's realy nonsenses...How could you sleep after saying such absurdities? That si regaridng both, Romania and Hungary....
more slvised than BUlagaria and Montenegro....ubelievable!
Good by my friend, there is nothing more to say but just this: patetic!
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ZLATA said:
"As far as Romanian and Slavs....well...anyone who has studied Romanian history would know that ethnic Slavs greatly contributed to the Romanian genetic pool (just like in Hungary). In fact, Slavs may have a bigger genetic presence in Romania...than Bulgaria or Montenegro. "
A modern tendency is to relate Human Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup and Mitochondrial DNA genetic studies with the ethnogenesis of peoples. However, just a small number of works exists today, especially for the area of Eastern Europe, so that one would be enabled to correlate them with the ethnogenesis of Romanians or of any other people, in a fully scientifical accepted way.
Some results from recent genetic studies may be interpreted in the way that the ethnic contribution of the indigenous Thracian and Daco-Getic population have made a significant contribution to the genes of the modern Romanian population and to the contribution to other Balkan (Albanians, Bulgarians and Greeks) and Italian groups.[3]
Haplogroup J is mostly found in South-East Europe, especially in central and southern Italy, Greece and Romania. It is also common in France, and in the Middle East. It is related to the Ancient Romans, Greeks and Phoenicians (J2), as well as the Arabs and Jews (J1). Subclades J2a and J2a1b1 are found mostly in Greece, Anatolia and southern Italy, and are associated with the Ancient Greeks.
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Regardless of whether it sounds Slavic or not , out of Portuguese and Romanian , which one would you agree is more pleasant sounding overall?
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"Regardless of whether it sounds Slavic or not , out of Portuguese and Romanian , which one would you agree is more pleasant sounding overall?"
I'd say Italian or FRench
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Both are sounding interesting...I don't realy know which I would chose. If I had to listen Amalia Rodrigues songs, Portuguese is fascinating. If I had to listen Aurelian Andreescu songs is like hearing Evis Presley singing in a Napolitano like dialect...
Both sounds nice to me! I cannot differenciate because each has it own flavour.
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out of Romanian and Portugues? Singing : French & Italian; speaking : French!
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Inthe last post I wanted to say, aside of (not out of).
Sorry!
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wow, the old troll "Sorinescu Ceausescu" was marked for life by the original Romanian troll "Soren".
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To me Rumanian sound like Sicilian or some strange Italian accent
Portuguese sounds like Rusian only because EU Portuguese dont like to pronunce vowels
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cant believe i just posted without a registration, very weird forum, lol
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"the Romanian language underwent a huge language reformation in the 19th century. Thousands of Slavic words were purged from the language and were replaced with their Latin equivalents. It's a historical fact. "
for the retard trolls:
Romanian was not Re-Latinised.
Romanian was French-inised.
We replaced some slavic words with some french words not Latin!!!
and that was the norm FRENCH not LATIN, you retard!
Yet Romanian does not sounds like French.
Ignore the pathetic trolls
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Continental (or lusitanian) Portuguese sounds Slavic.
Brazilian Portuguese and Gallego sound Romanic.
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