Polyglot Education Ideas

Guest   Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:45 pm GMT
I don't think seven has to be the limit for languages. It's obviously not a limit for some people. I also don't think it's necessary to have a 30,000 word vocabulary in each language.

I never know how well a person speaks until I hear him (or her). Some people are modest and will only admit "I speak some French" while others may only know travel-level phrases and they claim to speak the language.

Look at the English forum (unless those are joke posts) and try not to scream from laughter or pain at some of the posts there.

"I speak Engles good. In my clas am I best. Pleze tell me secrit to Amerika slangs."

I make mistakes. Indeed I do, but I try to write correctly in a foreign language.
Xie   Thu Jan 31, 2008 11:06 am GMT
>>Even native speakers don't understand many words in novels.

Even Barry Farber won't claim very high fluency in all languages he learnt.

And I? My Cantonese: 99% (I don't understand thick accents, I don't understand girlspeak, "fashionable young speak" [which is a linguistic disaster in where I live] and the very literary speak); My Mandarin: 70% (almost perfect written language, except colloquial and regional usage; plenty of carryovers that you guys have to spend multiple years to gain; pronunciation 90% but with lots of pauses; culturally native); My English: 30% despite three years of part-time unconscious study (good international usage, zero real exposure, pronunciation sucks, lots of pauses, virtually no contact with anglophone speakers)

I might have underrated myself, but here it is. If parents have to be that desperate and determined to let their children learn English and get rid of "village speak" (such as Teochew, Hakka or even Cantonese or Mandarin; this is for the Chinese case), killing language is rather easy: let them migrate to an anglophone country (and even which particular country does count), full immersion, english-only, done.

That sort of "polyglottery" isn't even theoretically possible. Though, to become a parrot-like polyglot is not "too" difficult. By that I can perfectly claim to be trilingual despite my limited ability in the other two in different aspects. I'd say I'd certainly admire someone and call him/her a polyglot if the native speakers s/he talks to say his/her language is nice, short of a foreign accent, and s/he can discuss lots of cultural topics fluently. This is not to be done by class. I don't care for it. It's already admirable to see a (would-be) polyglot willing to read lots of books (if that language has a literary tradition) every day. I'm yet to see such a serious, sophisticated and cultural person who doesn't (possibly) do all kinds of silly, life-consuming things like others.
Guest   Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:38 pm GMT
"If you don't know that much vocabulary, you should read a children's novel. There probably won't be too many words a native speaker wouldn't know in one, if any at all."

I know that vocabulary and more, I'm talking about the average native English speaker
Jack in Maryland   Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:00 pm GMT
The notion of "speaking a language", or the term "polyglot" would have to be clearly defined -- and individuals vary widely (and ambitiously) when they claim this ability for themselves.

Barry Farber in his book confessed to knowing "a couple dozen sentences" in one language, yet still stated that he "speaks" that language.

The only reasonable way to substantiate the claim of "speaking a language" (implying that one speaks it well) is to PROVE it --- carry on well with a variety of native speakers and let THEM decide. At that point, I suspect many self-proclaimed "polyglots" will conclude that they have alot more work left to do.

I'm certainly in this group myself.
Xie   Fri Feb 15, 2008 7:31 am GMT
>>Barry Farber in his book confessed to knowing "a couple dozen sentences" in one language, yet still stated that he "speaks" that language.

Did he? Maybe, but Farber did admit that he only spoke English and was a 'student' of all others.

I think whether someone counts as a polyglot shall be considered in a relative sense. There should be no polyglots if your judging criterion is NATIVE fluency. If basic fluency, i.e. being able to get your messages across very well, to get yourself understood and thus get by very well... then this foreign language counts.

Some people say it's the most difficult to boost their language level from B2 (high intermediate) to C1 (basic fluency), more than so from basic fluency to advanced/near-native fluency. That may suggest that, when you have enough active and passive knowledge to get your messages across (like what I'm doing here in English) and to understand (native) discourse. Although you are still not native and you may still want to work on fluency, you are in a position to learn others, if basic fluency of this second language shall be a necessary condition.
Guest   Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:08 am GMT
Is polyglot the same as multilingual? I think multilingual sounds more prestigious, where as polyglot is kind of like the merchant who knows scrappy phrases in various languages where he's lifed.
Guest   Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:11 pm GMT
I'd like to hear Alexander Arguelles speak a few languages. His ideas have shown up on a few websites and he is featured every Sunday at Learning Languages.

What I've read is that he thinks that every educated person should know ten languages. These languages vary according to the person's background. An English person and a Chinese person should know different languages in order to be considered "educated".

I reject that, frankly.

Being a language fanatic is fine, but really being able to speak languages well is (like it or not) a gift and it shouldn't be squandered. Ziad Fazah (despite his performance on the TV show) knows this.

Can it be taught? I'm not sure. I can certainly teach someone a survival form of a language if need be, but I don't know if I can teach someone to be a polyglot.
Guest   Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:25 pm GMT
Sorry, I am the "guest" above. According to another site, the educated person "should" know only six languages or in Prof Arguelles' words something like "half a dozen." That's not so bad.
Guest   Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:29 pm GMT
mansken.blogspot, Japanese for Life and Learning Languages seem to be three sources for the languages if anyone is interested in knowing what Prof Arguelles thinks. My apologies for the higher number. I'm not sure where that came from.
Guest   Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:36 pm GMT
<<
What I've read is that he thinks that every educated person should know ten languages. These languages vary according to the person's background. An English person and a Chinese person should know different languages in order to be considered "educated".
>>

That's a joke! Someone who speaks 10 languages is more likely to be considered a freak than educated - a monomaniac, a superhumanitarian or a wandering vagabond. I wonder if those people who speak 10 languages are well versed in the sciences or in other subjects of equal if not greater importance...
Geoff_One   Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:26 am GMT
In most cases, can a native English speaker understand a longish sequence of English metaphors? Are they always able to understand one?
Xie   Mon Feb 18, 2008 1:29 pm GMT
>>What I've read is that he thinks that every educated person should know ten languages. These languages vary according to the person's background. An English person and a Chinese person should know different languages in order to be considered "educated".

I reject that, frankly.

As you like! (and, frankly, would you mind using a distinctive name here?) I, too, wouldn't agree to learn classical Chinese, Japanese and Korean just because I'm Chinese. This is a reason I MAY consider, not I must, and that's what the professor has implied. Every person is meant choose freely, after all. I'd also say, yes, while this linguistic goal might be a bit idealistic, I've already seen my life changing after having studied a foreign language properly and in great depth without having even become fluent. It would be your better cultural knowledge, at least, that would pay off in the long run.

Ten might come from what other people asked. When I see someone who can write authoritative things [at least for me], I'd tend to pay more attention and take advice RATHER seriously, almost like worshiping - or perhaps that's how my own national personality affects my own thought, given the fact that virtually no one I know would ever even think of mastering English, the "only" foreign language out there.

By well-versed "I" would say my English already counts as a (badly) workable language with which I can study its literature and put thoughts in this foreign tongue.... and as the misinterpretation goes, there are 9 languages to go.
Guest   Mon Feb 18, 2008 8:10 pm GMT
Xie,

1. I think it's fine for Prof. Arguelles to "dream".

2. I think it borders on, let's say "the wild edge of funny", to write such things if it is intended for a wide audience. Most American-born physicians, pharmacists, engineers, and researchers do not have time to learn six languages. Now if this is for students of linguistics only, or diplomats, then yes, this is acceptable.

I say "American" because foreign-born physicians or engineers from India, for example may actually speak three or four languages because of the necessity of being a polyglot in their country.

3. I think it's perfectly reasonable to tailor the languages to the area of the world (certain languages for certain groups).
Guest   Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:14 am GMT
BTW, Xie what do you think of that proposed polyglot academy over at Learning Languages.

Personally, I found it strange that Korean was featured as a main language. I understand that the professor is married to a Korean lady, lived in Korean, etc., but Korean doesn't sound like it would draw in a lot of language students.

Chinese or Japanese seems like a bigger draw. I'd probably make Chinese a core language. A westerner who can master Chinese has really done something.
Guest   Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:16 am GMT
Lived in Korea.

Also, Prof. Arguelles heard that Korean was marginally more difficult than Japanese or something like that as a young man. I can't believe that! I'm studying Korean now, so maybe I should wait and see how tough it gets!