Polyglot Education Ideas

Guest   Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:17 pm GMT
>>2. I think it borders on, let's say "the wild edge of funny", to write such things if it is intended for a wide audience. Most American-born physicians, pharmacists, engineers, and researchers do not have time to learn six languages. Now if this is for students of linguistics only, or diplomats, then yes, this is acceptable.<<<

I'm actually more skeptical of the possibility of becoming a polyglot "in that sense" (refer to the study plan you can see; this isn't what I'll post there*) and in (just) 4 years. Putting almost everything aside, studying 9 hours would be, superficially, essentially conducive to a REALLY good knowledge of a couple of languages. (Chinese medical students spend far more time daily on studying alone)

By common sense, it is an idea to be spoken of. The plan could be possible, and if it did work, that would actually save much time of THE determined students.... who would otherwise have to spend multiple years studying a single language ineffectively. The idea of providing tailor-made learning materials is already VERY brilliant and is perfectly possible - that's at least what I think to be immediately possible with money.

*I'm also a poster there. I must say, well, online communities seem to develop in similar patterns everywhere, regardless of cultural differences. The Chinese mindset has been often cautious with political correctness - so I don't write in exactly the same way in antimoon (tend to more somewhat more open), but I think you should be able to guess who I am by referring to my written Chinese accent.

==

INSTITUTE

To start with... if there were an institute of such, I'd seriously consider enrolling in it if I were not already studying elsewhere. An ordinary "world-class" Chinese university, well, everything is quite good - you can see people from the States and everywhere studying quite well and having fun here - but certainly you won't learn everything and enough. Students here, like others, want to spend credits as quickly as possible, and there are always notorious professors who would make your GPA suck. Certain programs might be less intensive (certainly so, compared to the proposed plan), but then chances are they are watered down so much that people could learn little. In relation to learning languages, there ARE a couple of them in some such universities, but there is no such thing as a course for Indonesian / Russian / every other Chinese language (which would all be available in many US universities). So, as I see it, I think the plan is brilliant in the sense that "I can't conceivably imagine such an academy in my country". If you speak newspeak only, you won't know what "bad" is (ungood), what "excellent" is (plus good? forgot) - and there's no such word as polyglottery in Chinese, where the best equivalent is a long phrase few people "know" (精通多國語言 is often a rare linguistic trait of either foreigners, the "ghosts", or Chinese who must have been abroad for 10+ years).

INPUT

I'm thinking of S. Krashen. Language courses, at least the one I take (for GPA), isn't exactly conducive to LOW ANXIETY. I often get almost full marks (so it works for me), but then there are often exams, tests, and people often speak with a terrible accent (or can they speak at all? I doubt it). "Softly" forcing people to produce output (i.e. speak with loads of pauses and write compositions, both with countless mistakes) could be as bad as forcing them "hard". An ordinary language course would not be conducive to learning using comprehensible input. The language teacher, in the hope of both satisfying their own desire of teaching and earning money (or feeding their family), is implying through tuition that you CANNOT learn a language alone, you HAD better follow their way, learn that language for multiple years; after you are done with undergraduate studies, you would be left with a foreign language in which you can't really express comfortably, which you can't even "show off" during any sort of interviews or small talks with native speakers (if you dare to, with all your self-embarrassing, poor linguistic skills).

Idea

From NONE (no idea) to SOME (some ideas, some planning, and something that could be possible, at least in the US through the effort of the American professor, with money), that is MUCH. When I discovered 4 years ago that, in the newly discovered Learning Languages forum, there were lots of "Western" polyglots (for all their presumed good economic as well as linguistic background, which was a big plus for both developing career everywhere and for a cultured person), I was speechless; when I realized there was a professor of distinguished (linguistic) ability and, recently, there were even polyglot education ideas, I WAS speechless.

I still understand that I can't speak authentic English "properly" without staying in an Anglophone country for some time; but compared to poor monolinguals of my people who rarely know ANYTHING, if at all, about foreign cultures, just because there is so much politics in foreign language education, I've personally had experienced a mental revolution. That is truly an epiphany for a poor monolingual. (A scholar of the linguistics department is still claiming that you, the Anglophone, can only learn something as Chinese well enough through marrying a native speaker!)

==

There must be some limitations, such as language "prerequisites", but the plan you can see makes much sense - I don't think such an academy in Hong Kong or the US wouldn't establish English (and even French and German) as quasi-official.

In real terms, cultural differences aside, cultural information you CAN read (i.e. books, essays...every publication/text you can find in a decent university) are often in English and English only. Much of my own doubts, like the essentially different study plans of individual students (e.g. I can read annotated texts to read classical Chinese; many of you can't), have already been addressed by the professor (and some others).

The language choice is fine. It's always pleasing to see the Americans (and their European brothers) are always coming up with loads of language courses, in class or as a textbook, or, at least, nice ideas about learning. I'm not very into East Asian languages, but I'm always glad to see many people (our American and European brothers) becoming very interested in them. The global language market, as I see it, has to be led by English (the language; and America the country). When people become more confident with their English, they would be learning more languages.

Again, some of the doubts, like whether Spanish and Irish are suitable, have been addressed somewhat. As for the idea of learning multiple languages in the course of a few years, the schedule might be a bit rigid, but that's how it could be designed. Not studying loads of "useless", GPA-unpromising subjects and forcing yourself to study 9 hours are enough for acquiring multiple languages in this fashion. (But then, could the environment keep your anxiety low?)
Xie   Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:20 pm GMT
My apology for not having signed my name.

==

If I did take the East Asian track, I'd actually find it easier to learn Japanese first. In general, a Chinese "knowing" any foreign language would already be a big plus in any way.
Guest   Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:27 am GMT
You may be a good candidate for such a polyglot academy, Xie, but from what I remember of its description, the dream academy has some unusual concepts underlying it.

Meditation: I don't think this is necessary for a language academy.


Elevating Korean over Japanese: Don't think this is a good idea. Japanese is slightly more difficult for "westerners" than Korean according to FSI ratings and students need more time with this language.

Creating an "intellectual" caste or class. Ow!

Islamic languages track: What's this? A general heading for languages spoken in countries where Islam is the primary faith, I guess. I suppose "Middle Eastern" wouldn't work because Hebrew is not included. Farsi and Arabic are valuable languages, but I think this needs another description. There are no "Buddhist" languages, no "Christian" or "Jewish" language tracks.

Exchanges: Okay, antimoon doesn't think it's necessary to move overseas to learn English. I agree-for English, but not for Chinese or Japanese. I've never met anyone who was good in Japanese who had never been to Japan unless they were born in a Japanese family. I don't remember if this was discussed, but it should be a part of any polyglot academy.

Prof. Arguelles has some good ideas. Shadowing works. Allotting time for regular study is a good idea, but how much?


Of course, Prof. Arguelles really only wants students who are interested in learning ten languages. That's high, but not so high for some readers of antimoon.
Guest   Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:54 am GMT
Korean more difficult than Japanese? What kind of absolute nonsense is that? Unless you don't count learning 5000 characters as hard (yeah yeah yeah it's just memorisation, but why don't you do it yourself then tell me it's not hard) what is the basis for this claim?
Guest   Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:19 am GMT
Guest at 5:54. I think JAPANESE is more difficult than Korean. Prof. Arguelles is the one who may think otherwise. I disagree with him and find it odd that he would give more time to Korean than Japanese unless he is going the old route when Koreans still learned Chinese characters.

He gave up Japanese and Chinese after studying them for awhile if I understand his story correctly. On the other hand he seems to be very familiar with Korean because he lived in Korea and married a Korean (I think).

I know very well what it is to learn thousands of characters. I don't think it's hard, but it consumes a lot of time.
Guest   Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:58 am GMT
The idea of a polyglot academy is not new. I look forward to seeing if Prof. Arguelles will modify any of his ideas now that he has received some feedback. It's quite daring to put ideas out there. I'd like to see him on a talk show. If he made such an appearance perhaps he'd stir interest in his academy. It's risky, but who knows?
Xie   Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:52 pm GMT
>>>Meditation: I don't think this is necessary for a language academy.<<<

With my so-so English knowledge, I sort of think it’s quite Buddhist; and like you, I don’t think it’s necessary – would I be in a Buddhist or qigong class?

>>>Prof. Arguelles has some good ideas. Shadowing works. Allotting time for regular study is a good idea, but how much?<<<

I’d find it equally difficult to explain or describe this to my Chinese friends IN Chinese; IN English, I shall try my best to tell you what I think about this. This is sort of like: you are to become Cicero of tomorrow, and, in real terms, yes, I agree that shadowing does work, and you must be in a good place (good air, large personal space) to do so – read along, with some nice rhythms while pacing, and that must be a very enjoyable experience. That is to say, when you sort of feel that you can narrate as good as the native speakers of the audios, you would feel like “enlightened”, like all those people, in those bible stories, who were enlightened, with a ??halo?? above their heads, to speak (all possible) foreign tongues for religious purposes.

Definitely, I still think the ideas are brilliant when SAID. Theoretically (rather like a cliché), it should work, and perfectly. That would save much precious time of all those who don't like to "study" a language at university for multiple years without getting fluent.
Guest   Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:57 pm GMT
But will they be fluent, Xie at the end of those years?

They may end up as good librarians, or consultants.

How many people want to learn EXACTLY like Prof. Arguelles? That's the question. I think joining such an academy would be like becoming a "disciple" of Prof. Arguelles.

I think Prof. Arguelles has valuable information to share. I believe that he
wrote an interesting post on Slavic languages and "which one to learn" awhile back. It was thorough, engaging and made me aware that he HAS thought about how people learn and what languages would be suitable or easier for some people.

I notice that you mentioned the Bible. I"m not sure what the halos are all about. I thought those were just depictions of "saints" in Catholic and Orthodox paintings, not an indication of enlightenment. In any case, the Bible is not suggested as a great book in his dream academy (an obvious omission, but I'm not sure I'd want Prof. Arguelles teaching me the Bible, lol). No halos are guaranteed at the end of the polyglot academy, but hopefully, a diploma of languages will be the prize. That should be enough for many people.
Xie   Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:27 am GMT
I'm afraid I'd never be in the position to speak of both fluency and a professor. I'm just a mere mortal who can't even speak English fluently.

>>>How many people want to learn EXACTLY like Prof. Arguelles? That's the question. I think joining such an academy would be like becoming a "disciple" of Prof. Arguelles. <<<

I don't think one can do it "EXACTLY". Think for yourself. Yet another professor wouldn't possibly be able to do it exactly. This issue might have more to do with how the professor himself thinks about the study of languageS. That's a plural.

A budding student of linguistics, I can see how inadequate it would be to study certain fields, esp. when it is necessary, without knowing multiple languages (such as 3; I've got at least 3 already!). I found it too difficult to explain what (English) morphology is to a budding student of English studies who never learnt something like German (since English inflections are "too" simple) and never knows English well enough, when I could see it's too difficult / futile to explain what CASE is using ENGLISH examples.

That must be something very complex to an average Joe, but that's also what I think to be worth studying in A university/academy.

I don't really know the nature of seldom learnt languages (like Irish) and ancient languages (like Latin); I just think students should be done with modern, popular languages when, say, they can put their ideas like how I do in English. That's already a lot of work to do, literally every day. It seems to be an ultimate challenge to be able to show one's own linguistic ability through displaying THIS form of discourse. I wouldn't find it convincing (sort of over-demanding, though), as an employer, to see a supposedly brilliant student of German who can't read Kafka......... or, oh, should I say "just to read news in this language"?