language everyone wants to know but not learn

Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:10 am GMT
<<A lot of people in the arts are liberal>>
and eccentrics at the same time.
Tengo un pacto de sangre con el pueblo y tengo un pacto de estrellas con la poesía."
-Pablo Neruda
Cosas que me piden
Puedo Escribir los Versos Mas Tristes Esta Noche.
Podrán cortar todas las flores, pero no podrán detener la primavera.
Es tan corto el amor y tan largo el olvido.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:41 am GMT
Yes, those are beautiful lines.

I'm a bit eccentric, but I can pass for normal in public.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:20 am GMT
Creo que ya nos desviamos del tema, nadamas ignoren al loquito que anda diciendo grocerias y listo.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:21 am GMT
Ya callate que me desesperas.
Jose Jose   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:16 am GMT
">The reason people struggle with Spanish despite its relative ease and the high degree of exposure most Americans have with it<"

Metropolitan areas, yes. Rural areas, no. Most of the U.S.A is rural - you should know this. But to what degree? Basic? Intermediate? Advanced? Fluent? In my view, Americans in metropolitan areas may know basic greetings, gestures, words, taboos and slangs. As a Californian I've noticed this often with non-hispanics (americans) with no academic background with the Spanish language in secondary or university schools. As for the ones with a 2-3 academic background, they express a more posh Spanish while understanding more of the language then hispanics.

>"most Spanish-speakers speak English; furthermore, the fact that Spanish is so accessible, it makes it that much harder for a learner to sit down and study it... This is true for me with my homework... The easier it is, the easier it is for me to put it off...<"

Exactly. Spanish-speakers prefer to speak English rather then their own native tongue - due to their own cultural / linguistic embarrasment - which the U.S subtly imposes here. Furthermore you're right about Americans procrastinating about a subject, language, research paper - americans are knowned for it. I guess the American culture has made its subjects determined for strenuous work while underming the unstrenuous work.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:31 am GMT
<<As for the ones with a 2-3 academic background, they express a more posh Spanish while understanding more of the language then hispanics. >>

¿qué dices hombrecito? Debes de estar loco para pensar semejante idiotez. ¿a qué te refieres con eso de '2-3 academic background'?¿ a los colegiales?¿Cómo pueden los colegiales estadounidenses, después de dos o tres años estudiándolo de la manera más mierda que se da en el mundo, saber un idioma mejor que la gente que lo habla desde la infancia?
Jose Jose   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:41 am GMT
>"¿qué dices hombrecito? Debes de estar loco para pensar semejante idiotez. ¿a qué te refieres con eso de '2-3 academic background'?¿ a los colegiales?¿Cómo pueden los colegiales estadounidenses, después de dos o tres años estudiándolo de la manera más mierda que se da en el mundo, saber un idioma mejor que la gente que lo habla desde la infancia?<"

For example:

Ey! Voy a ir la libreria a hacer mi homework; cuando llegue me haces comida...okay? (Hispano nacido en E.U.A, sin educacion previo de la lengua espanola)

Oye! Voy a la biblioteca a hacer mi tarea; cuando llegue me haces comida...ok? (Hispano nacido en E.U.A, con alguna educacion de la lengua espanola)

Oye! Voy a la biblioteca a hacer mis deberes; al volver podrias hacerme comida...de acuerdo? (estadounidense, con educacion)

See the difference?
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:48 am GMT
Why do you think "tarea" is less educated than "deberes"? In some countries they say deberes and in other ones they say tarea. Both are synonymous .
Jose Jose   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:48 am GMT
Hispanics as mentioned earlier, don't care much of their own tongue sounds cultured. Therefore they express themselves more so in slang / spanglish wise as opposed to the educated American or Hispanic. It's a cultural thing. I've met a lot of Hispanics (born here in california) who speak in the manner I've depicted in the previous post. I hate to break it to you.
Jose Jose   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:55 am GMT
">Why do you think "tarea" is less educated than "deberes"? In some countries they say deberes and in other ones they say tarea. Both are synonymous.<"

Well here in California - tarea is the norm 90% of the time. In Latin-american countries I know it's synonymous, however, that's what I'm refering about. HERE in the states tarea is the norm; I guess because for the fact that it's less used here it sounds more posh, like any word in any language. The less a word is used, it tends to sound more learned.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 2:56 am GMT
hispanics born in the State speak terrible Spanish, people in Mexico and Latin America usually make fun of the way they talk.
Jose Jose   Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:12 am GMT
">hispanics born in the State speak terrible Spanish, people in Mexico and Latin America usually make fun of the way they talk.<"

Agreed. Moreover, People in Mexico also have a tendency upon expressing themselves like the hispanics - let's be honest. Italy is another great example upon expressing itself with English neologisms ad nauseam. What a horrible thing to do to a beautiful language.

Examplea:
Hey!, Freezer, Weekend, Snob, Okay, Online, Password etc.
mac   Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:33 am GMT
<< Exactly. Spanish-speakers prefer to speak English rather then their own native tongue - due to their own cultural / linguistic embarrasment - which the U.S subtly imposes here. >>

I don't think "embarrasment" is the correct word to use here. I think the reason you find many Spanish-speakers in the U.S. using English is because, well, English is the de facto language of the U.S. It's necessary to know English unless you want your life to have very limited options. It's common sense and practicality, not "embarrasment".

Many Spanish speakers prefer to (choose to, have to) speak English in the U.S. Well, no shit! They're in an English speaking society. If I move to Mexico, I'm not going to speak Spanish because I'm embarrased of English, I'm going to speak Spanish because I'm in Mexico - a Spanish speaking country.
Guest   Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:08 pm GMT
If you don't speak English in the United States, you have very few options. You can stay in your ethnic group (like some Korean or Bosnian women do.), but you won't have a very good position and you put yourself at risk medically. If you can't understand that a tornado or hurricane is headed your way, you may lose your life.
Jose Jose   Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:02 am GMT
">I don't think "embarrasment" is the correct word to use here. I think the reason you find many Spanish-speakers in the U.S. using English is because, well, English is the de facto language of the U.S. It's necessary to know English unless you want your life to have very limited options. It's common sense and practicality, not "embarrasment". <"

Of course English is the lingua franca of the U.S.A. No question about it. Furthermore hispanics (in my view) seem embarrassed -at least here in california - when expressing themselves in English due to their struggle to fit in American society. Obviously they're exceptions - naturally. But from what I've noticed they have a tendency to get quiter in speech when speaking Spanish when there's an anglo, asian, african or whatever present. As for the cultural embarrasment they have a tendency to make fun of their own paisanos (native people) and jest / joke about them with other hispanics or people of other races.


">Many Spanish speakers prefer to (choose to, have to) speak English in the U.S. Well, no shit! They're in an English speaking society. If I move to Mexico, I'm not going to speak Spanish because I'm embarrased of English, I'm going to speak Spanish because I'm in Mexico - a Spanish speaking country. <"

You've misinterpreted my original statement.