I'm learning Japanese now and my teacher has always told me that use a "respect form " when you are talking to a older person or people whose social class are higher than you. However, I 'm really wondreing that it's
really necenarry in Japan society nowadays ;especially between the young generation?
By the way, the principles that Japaneses use " ka-ta ka me " are really confusious to me because the priciple used to be using for the foriengn language.
According to some Japanese friends of mine, the deferent form is rarely used by japanese nowadays. Some of them have even noticed that the Gaijin are much better at that form than the average Japanese!
If you in England, make careful you no say ka-ka. It mean shit.
To: messire lavoisel
Thak you for answering my questions ! ^^
By the way, what's the meaning of the word " Gaijin " ?
To: Hai
You said that " ka-ka " means shit; I think this is really speical !
Because the pronunciation doesn't sound like English.
To: Hai
You said that " ka-ka " means shit; I think this is really speical !
Because the pronunciation doesn't sound like English.
To Hai,
'caca' is a French word which means excrement in little children' language. I don't think this word exists in English.
We say "cack" (albeit rarely). Also heard in "cack-handed", slang for "left-handed" - Very offensive for lefties.
Ursula Yu, Gaijin means foreigner in Japanese. ;)
Now that I think about it, which form were you precisely talking about, Ursula Yu?
Because I think you were talking about the acceptable form, which is very very used (and often mixed with the neutral form in conversation), while the deferent form is something much rarer...
To be clearer, what I call the acceptable form is the use of verbs in -masu.
I am from Hong Kong, a Japanese learner too.
From the TV dramas I watched and the Japanese letters I read, I can tell you that Keigo (respect form) is very important and a must in business.
Japanese has "humble form" for yourself and "respect form" for others.
For example, "suru" (do) has "itasu" as humble form and "nasaru" as respect form.
As far as I can make out things are something like this.
There are varying degrees of politeness that exist in Japnaese, much the same as in any language. However, in Japanese the words you choose are quite a important factor when it comes to politeness. Unlike in English the inflexion of verbs can expressed the level of politeness.
You could basically divide things up into three levels of politeness: the honorific form, the polite form and the plain form. Unless you happen to be hob-nobbing with royalty, I wouldn't worry about the honorific form.
The polite form is the one with all the "-masu"s, "desu"s, "gozaimasu"s and stuff. For example, "Good morning." = "Ohayo gozaimasu.", "How are you?" = "Ogenki desu ka?" and "He's going to Akita." = "Kare ha Akita ni ikimasu." In the plain form all this is not necessary, the examples above become "Ohayo.", "Genki?" and "Kare ha Akita ni iku."
But, like Messire Lavoisel wrote, these forms are normally mixed in usual speach. Still, you'd be best having an idea of when to use which. You've been told to use the polite form "when you are talking to a older person or people whose social class are higher than you." Yeah, that'd be about right but you always have to be careful of what you're told about foreign countries. Much of what you find in books on Japan is sheer bollocks.
Japan is no longer a feudal shogunate with samurai and gaisha roaming the street. It's a modern democracy (if there really is any such thing). You needn't go round thinking in terms of social class, it's not so important. Certainly, however, give the older generation the respect that they deserve but it's not as if you cannot ever use the plain form of speech to them.
Indeed, I had a Japanese friend who is fifteen years my elder, there was never the need to use the polite form to him, he was a friend of mine. The best bet would be to use the same degree of politeness that you would at home, remembering that politeness is expressed in the words you choose. Also, keep an ear out for how these forms are used by the native speakers and follow their lead.
That said, here are some instances where the polite form would be normal: when speaking to someone you don't know that well, to a customer, to a client (as says "Keigo ... is ... a must in business."), to your employer, to your teacher, to the doctor, etc. There is no hard and fast rule though, you may be quite familiar with some of these people so the plain form would be fine.
Here are some instances where the polite form would not be necessary: when speaking to friends, family, boyfriends, girlfriends, spouses, students (this depends though), etc. And here's an example of when to use the honorific form: when you're having afternoon tea with the Emperor.
What if you are the wife of the emperor having tea with him? Still need to use the polite form? :-P
Better ask Her Imperial Magesty the Emperess ... though I don't reckon so but you never know ...