does watch "FRIENDS" good for learning english?

dian,

Jim is usually very sharp when it comes to grammar so I'd opt for what he says especially if you're taking a standardized test. What I said was probably more in the realm of colloquial speech.

I am not saying that anyone is wrong. Here's just what I would say:
"You've already said that you enjoy the show and that it's a good way to learn and to listen to colloquial speech."

According to sentence examples I've seen in a particular British grammar book, the present perfect (have said) can be used with the present tense (enjoy).

I don't know if my "that...that", "to...to" constructions are grammatical. I used to write "that" and "to" only once but then, I started learning French and got into a habit of repeating them. Now, writing "that" or "to" only once as in "that you enjoy the show and it's a good way to learn and listen to colloquial speech" even appears ungrammatical to my eyes, which may have been distorted.

But, in real life, what will you do?

I will strict with the rules from grammar books, but I will not too strict when I must speak with a native speaker. Or, I think I can use both. It is common for me when I start a sentence with past tense such as in "You said that..." then go on with past tense consistently. I hope that I have done rightly.

In real life, don't stress it. Haven't time to go into details but I wonder if the book of A.S.C.M.'s was talking of reported speech. This is a reported speech question not just one about using present perfect and present tense together. See ya, more detail next time.

Don't forget to come back here, because I am waiting for your answer....:-)

correction
Is watching Friends good for learning English?
Your English is terrible Cerbrina

That's not very nice SagaSon. Give poor Cerbrina a break. She's trying.

You poor bugger, A.S.C.M. Your English has been distorted by the French. Fear not though, for you are in good company: as we all know the language has had a nice history of distortion by the French language stretching back nigh a millenium. If you ask me you could have got by without the second "that" or the second "to" but putting them in does make things more clear.

A.S.C.M., what kind of sentence examples have you seen in that particular British grammar book? Certainly the present perfect can be used with the present tense. For example, the A sentences below can combine with the B sentences to give the C sentences.

A: I have eaten my meat.
B: I want to eat pudding.
C: I have eaten my meat and want to eat pudding.

A: I have married you.
B: I don't love you.
C: I have married you but don't love you.

A: Bill has punched his sister again.
B: Bill likes punching his sister.
C: Bill likes punching his sister and has done it again.

A: Mary has said the show was about childish fools.
B: Mary never enjoys the show.
C: Mary never enjoys the show and has said it was about childish fools.

However, these examples are not reported speech. I'm going to write about reported speech after lunch. See ya.

SagaSon, if you think that Cebrina's sentence is not correct, could you explain more why it is not correct? So that she will understand and not make mistake again later.

I also received many suggestions from native speakers in this forum. When they said that my sentence was not correct, they also said the reason why they said that.

I am waiting for your answer SagaSon....

Actually, I tell a lie. "Mary has said the show was about childish fools." is reported speech. And thus so is "Mary never enjoys the show and has said it was about childish fools."

If I had written the following instead then it would have been in direct speech rather than reported speech.

A: Mary has said "The show was about childish fools."
B: Mary never enjoys the show.
C: Mary never enjoys the show and has said "The show was about childish fools."

Anyway, what we have here is a case of reported speech. Reported speech is also known as "indirect speech". Indirect speech is different to direct speech. Direct speech is also known as quoted speech. When you use direct speech you just quote the speaker exactly. In indirect speech when the reporting verb is in the simple past then the speech is shifted back a tense.

Suppose you had been talking to your friend yesterday and he said the D sentences below. Now today you're telling someone else what your friend said. You could either quote him directly using the E sentences or use the F sentences which are indirect speech.

D: I enjoy the show.
E: He said "I enjoy the show."
F: He said he enjoyed the show.

D: It's a good way to learn.
E: He said "It's a good way to learn."
F: He said it was a good way to learn.

D: The dog ate my lunch.
E: He said "The dog ate my lunch."
F: He said the dog had eaten his lunch.

D: My mum hates it here.
E: He said "My mum hates it here."
F: He said his mum hated it there.

Still, I wouldn't say that mjd's sentence is wrong. He wrote "You already said that you enjoy the show and it's a good way to listen to and learn colloquial speech." She probably still does enjoy the show and how good a way to learn and to listen to colloquial speech hasn't changed since she wrote it. It's still the case so native speakers often tend not to backshift in such a situation.

The thing about grammar is that it's really only a discription of how people use the language. Don't worry too much in everyday speech. But like mjd says, if you're taking a standardised test, writing an essay, giving a formal speech, reading the news, etc. be strict with grammar.

Also if you look at A.S.C.M.'s sentence, "You've already said that you enjoy the show and that it's a good way to learn and to listen to colloquial speech.", you'll notice that there is no backshift in tense. Is he wrong? Actually, no, he's quite correct.

I'm afraid that I might have been confusing things when I asked if the book had been really talking about reported speech. When the reporting verb is in the present perfect there is no backshift. If you report the above D sentences in indirect speech in the present perfect they become the G sentences below.

D: I enjoy the show.
G: He's said he enjoys the show.

D: It's a good way to learn.
G: He's said it's a good way to learn.

D: The dog ate my lunch.
G: He's said the dog ate his lunch.

D: My mum hates it here.
G: He's said his mum hates it there.

For more detail on reported speech have a look at the following sites.

http://esl.about.com/library/grammar/blreported.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/marynell/grammar/reprtdsp.html
http://valenciaenglish.netfirms.com/reported.htm
http://langues.cmaisonneuve.qc.ca/sbeller/quizzes/Grammar_Goblins/GGReportedSpeech.htm
http://www.welcometoenglishandfun.com/grammar/pdf/ReportedSpeech.pdf
http://www.bcc.ac.th/000_ae_web/indirect_speech.htm

Thank you for your answer, especially for the links you wrote at the end of your posting.

Ok, I teach English to taiwanese and chinese immigrants, and I'm a native speaker of English. I'm also in the graduate program of anthropology at California State University, Fullerton, majoring in linguistic anthropology. So maybe I can help.

Original:
"You already said that you enjoy the show and it's a good way to listen to and learn colloquial speech."

"You already said that you enjoy the show" PERFECT

"it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech." ALSO PERFECT

The only problem is that you forgot to put a comma in between the two clauses. Those of you who are hung up on the fact that there is a tense shift in the sentence must not be familiar with the finer points of english sentence structure. There are two independant clauses in the sentence, separated by the comma (which was left out, mistakenly). Each of these clauses is in its own tense and this is fine because they refer to different temporal concepts.

The first clause (You already said that you enjoy the show) is simple past tense and the prepositional phrase within the clause (that you enjoy the show) can have its own tense (simple present) because it is a separate linguistic entity form the rest of the clause.

The second clause (it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech) is in simple present tense also. This is also a separate linguistic entity.

Ben

Learning english by watching "friends" is a good way to improve your english. I've started watching it about a month ago and I've learnt lots of new phrasal verbs.

If Ben is right about there being two independent clause in the sentence, "that you enjoy the show" is not a prepositional phrase but a noun phrase. It is the direct object of the verb "said". It is not a separate linguistic entity form the rest of the clause. There can be a tense shift according to the rules of reported speech.

However is he right? Is "it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech" a separate linguistic entity? The question is "Was mjd saying that Cerbrina had said this or was he stating his own opinion about the show?"

Cebrina wrote "our teacher told us that we can learn english in it," She didn't write that it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech. Perhaps that's the teacher's opinion but Cebrina made no direct claim that it was hers too. But might that have been what she implied? Might that not have been what mjd thought she'd meant?

The answer lies with mjd. Only he can give the difinitive answer. mjd, is "it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech" a separate linguistic entity?

Suppose

A = you enjoy the show
&
B= it's a good way to listen to and learn english colloquial speech

Did you mean
1 "You said (A & B)."
or
2 "(You said A) & B."?

While I suppose it's a decent sitcom and I get a few chuckles here and there, but I'm not a big "Friends" fan, nor am I of any sitcom for that matter.

It's true, her teacher said one can "learn English" by watching "Friends." Nothing was said about colloquialism etc. I figured that the best thing the show could teach a student of English was colloquial speech, idioms, and pronunciation. "Friends" is certainly no supplement for studying grammar, so I see no other reasons other than the ones I stated above to watch the show. That is unless one watches it for enjoyment, which is not necessarily related to learning English.

*While I suppose it's a decent sitcom and I get a few chuckles here and there, I'm not a big "Friends" fan, nor am I of any sitcom for that matter.

Omit that "but."