Differences Between American and Castilian Spanish

Nic: I wrote the previous post and put your name on top. Pardon.

mjd,

I’ve previously heard in several instances US Americans commenting on how "British" English sounds proper or remarks along similar lines. That's where I get it from mjd. Most Latin Americans that I know wouldn’t be caught dead making that type of comment in regards to Peninsular Spanish. But Jordi claims otherwise. No offence intended towards the Spaniards.

I also know that Spaniards claim that their version is more cosmopolitan, "pure" and doesn't sound like its coming from the mouths of "unsophisticated indians". LMAO :-) I guess the feeling is mutual, we tend to think that our versions are better. The term "indian" is almost always used to deride us. The connotation of "indian" came to signify someone that was "sub-human" and it still is I'm afraid.

mjd,

<<'m not quite sure what you mean when you say: "Unlike US Americans, the Peninsular Spanish accent is not looked up to as proper or better by the majority of the population in Latin America.">>

Who are we looking up to? We certainly don't think British English is any better than our own dialect.

Double Post. I didn't include what I was responding to.


I’ve previously heard in several instances US Americans commenting on how "British" English sounds proper or remarks along similar lines. That's where I get it from mjd. Most Latin Americans that I know wouldn’t be caught dead making that type of comment in regards to Peninsular Spanish. But Jordi claims otherwise. No offence intended towards the Spaniards.

I also know that Spaniards claim that their version is more cosmopolitan, "pure" and doesn't sound like its coming from the mouths of "unsophisticated indians". LMAO :-) I guess the feeling is mutual, we tend to think that our versions are better. The term "indian" is almost always used to deride us. The connotation of "indian" came to signify someone that was "sub-human" and it still is I'm afraid.

Jordi,

<<It's the one forum where I can't edit my messages properly.>>

What other forums do you frequent Jordi. If you don't mind me asking. :-)

Juan:
I've found a page that might interest you. I looked up the Internet for "Spanish" and "prestige" and I've found an interesting link regarding Colombian Spanish. The Colombians claim they speak the best Spanish in the Americas. The article is called "Dueños del mejor español de América." "Owners of the best Spanish in America."
The mains reasons, according to them, would be:
1.) the Bogotá accent is neutral (whatever that may mean, although I can tell you that Bogotá Colombians sound very much like Educated Southern Spaniards).
2.) Close ties with Peninsular Spanish since the mid-19th century.
Please read the following in Spanish:
"Ya desde el siglo XIX había en Colombia una preocupación por el idioma, asociada al interés por mantener vínculos con España y a la clase de república que quería un grupo de humanistas entre los que destacaban Manuel Antonio Caro y Rufino José Cuervo.
La principal principal iniciativa de Caro para mantener el nexo con España fue la fundación en 1872 de la Academia Colombiana de la Lengua, que es corresponsal de la española y fue la primera de América."
So, if the Colombians claim their bettter Spanish is due to links with European Spanish it's very much what some Bostonians say when they claim that their American English is "more British". You'll even find upper class and educated Australians and New Zealanders who speak with a near RP British accent.
I, very much like you, don't agree with these pedigree questions but, as we say in Castilian,"no hay nada nuevo en la viña del Señor." ("Nothing new in our Lord's vineyard.") The French would say: "Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose." (The more it changes, the more it's the same.)
Please read it for yourself in Castilian Spanish:
El idioma de la violencia en Colombia : El idioma de la violencia ...
... de que en ese país el castellano tiene una ... le viene a Colombia más bien del acento
neutro usado ... Pero el prestigio del buen hablar colombiano parece tornarse ...
www.univision.com/content/ content.jhtml?cid=328303&pagenum=2 - 52k - En caché - Páginas similares
The Australians call the strong British influence until the 1970s, "the cultural cringe". I'm afraid there's still a Spanish, British and French cultural cringe in the Americas. The culprits, nowadays, are not so much present day Europeans but European descendents over there.
And a big smile to you too, :-)

Jordi,

That's Ok with my name.

What's a cringe?

To cringe is very much to shrink, to cower, to humilate or to lower oneself. I haven't looked up to the dictionary but I'm pretty sure it means all those things.

Hell! Looked up the dictionary and not up to...

Yes, I have 13 years (años), but not 13 anuses (anos).

Colombian Spanish is not so beautiful. Well, I know a man who was born and lived in Cali. He speaks quite different from the accents spoken in other countries. I can't explain it, it's just weird.

Xatufan,

<<Yes, I have 13 years (años), but not 13 anuses (anos). >>

I got that. But you got too smart for your own good. :-)

<<Colombian Spanish is not so beautiful. Well, I know a man who was born and lived in Cali. He speaks quite different from the accents spoken in other countries. I can't explain it, it's just weird. >>

I'll agree with this. It's just like any other accent. I don't know where the Colombianos get off thinking that their "Spanish" is the SECOND BEST in the world. And since they think that theirs its closest to the Peninsular variety, that's an indirect admission of inferiority.

Well, Longos' Spanish is better than Colombian Spanish. Jaro, jaro, jaro, jaro. I think Mexican Spanish sounds well, but Peninsular Spanish is even better.

(Longos is a derogatory word that refers to people from the Ecuadorian Sierra (Mountains). People from the Coast (like me, I live in Guayaquil) hate indios and people from the mountains. I don't hate them because they were invaded by Spaniards and they want to claim their rights. The word longos is especially heard in the sentence "Longos de mierda!")

(Jaro, jaro, jaro, jaro is a phrase heard when people say amorfinos or popular poems. Like Olé in corridas de toros.)

My favorite poem says like this:

Morenito soy señores,
yo no niego mi color;
que entre todos los colores,
el moreno es el mejor,
¡jaro, jaro, jaro, jaro!

(I'm not black.)

Xatufan,
When you say that Peninsular Spanish "is even better" is it your opinion or would you say that people in Ecuador would also agree with you? Would your parents agree with that statement? I'm interested about prestige of Peninsular or European Spanish in Central and South America. It seems clear that it has a high prestige in Colombia and, from what I've heard, in Venezuela too. Would that also be the case in Ecuador? It also has a lot of prestige for US authorities who employ more and more European Spanish teachers in 2-3 years stays in the US for bilingual programmes. I would like to hear comments from other Latin American readers. From what I know about Mexico a friend told me he was exceptionally well received everywhere when they heard his Peninsular Spanish accent.

Jordi,

We are very hospitable people, we are known for that. But that doesn't mean that the people your friend came across were "impressed" by his accent. They received it well, yes people don’t mind if you butcher the language as long as they understand what you are trying to communicate. In all likelihood very few people would have recognised the origin of his accent. Some may have even believed it was from some other area in Mexico or Latin America :-) A lot of people sometimes mistake hospitality and interpret it as a sign of weakness or of being overawed or impressed in some manner. It reminds me of what happened of what took place a couple of centuries ago. ;-)

<< also has a lot of prestige for US authorities who employ more and more European Spanish teachers in 2-3 years stays in the US for bilingual programmes.>>

You should know the reason, Jordi. It's called Eurocentrism. They want to hire teachers that know PURE Spanish, not that other kind. I’m reasonably confident that Latin American teachers are as competent and qualified, if not more so, as their counterparts from Spain.

nic,

<<you said many french feel superior when they come to Spain. I don't think like that of course.>>

Wasn't Napoleon (not sure who it was) the one that coined the phrase:

"Africa begins at the Pyrenees"

Was it meant as a compliment or as a derogatory comment since people tend to react negatively if accused of having "African" ancestry.

As I've mentioned in another thread, SOME British people think that Europe begins at Calais!

There is an expression "Little Englander" and I always thought it referred to people just like that....the types who think that we are not Europeans in these offshore islands. I looked it up and apparently Little Englanders goes back to the 19th century in origin and referred to people who opposed "any further extension of the British Empire"! That's hardly applicable today! My supposed meaning does, I guess.