What Do You Know About Loan Words In Languages?

Frances   Monday, April 18, 2005, 06:37 GMT
In the meantime, I found this interesting site:

http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/english/ha/half+wit.html

It is all the ways that you can say "idiot", "fool" etc. I noticed the Czech says "hlupak" which is obviously the equivalent to our "glup" - dumb or "gluposti" - nonsense.
Tiffany   Monday, April 18, 2005, 06:47 GMT
I'm not sure I totally trust that it has found all of them since it only lists two words for Italian and totally ignores a cognate of the English word 'idiot' = 'idiota'.
Frances   Monday, April 18, 2005, 06:49 GMT
that's true. I looked up "half-wit". I think everyone in Europe has some form of "idiot", in our language it is "idiota" too.
Frances   Monday, April 18, 2005, 06:51 GMT
Brennus   Tuesday, April 19, 2005, 06:46 GMT
I would like to thank all of you who contributed your responses about loanwords in languages that you know on this thread. A lot of effort was put into some of them with good results.

Kirk: A good account of English loanwords in Argentine Spanish and Korean. I've read that North Korean has fewer English loanwords than South Korean but still some dating from the Japanese period and also by way of Russian. For example, South Korean has taenkuu for "tank" and chaesuu for "jazz" borrowed directly from American English while North Korean has tankuu and chasuu (only slightly different) via Russian tank and dzhaz.

Frances: Yes, robot is one of the more prominent Slavic loanwords in English along with polka, vampire and vodka.

Greg: I imagine that L'Académie française (The French Academy) had to approve of all those borrowings you listed. Canadian French has been able to bypass this so it sometimes has different loanwords from English such as badloque "bad luck" (standard French 'malchance').

Joaquin: I've read that Tagalog has some lborrowings from Chinese as well as Spanish because Chinese merchants were always there. In fact, chili peppers apparently came to China via the Philippines where the Spanish brought them in from Mexico.

Easterner: The Gypsy word 'chavo' appears in Spanish; I wasn't aware that it was in Hungarian too.

Romanian: Your language is a very copious borrower of foreign words. Romanian newspapers published in the U.S. contain words like subwayul; freewayul; congressmanul; kindergarten, nursa, raccoon, businesuri and credit-carduri. H.L. Menkin writing in the 1920's mentions Nu mã bãdãrui ("Don't bother me") as one anglicism used by Romanian-Americans.

Adam: I've always been interested in pre-conquest Latin loanwords in English myself and you've provided a good list of them. The ones that come from Vulgar Latin provide some insight into what the Vulgar Latin dialects of the Rhineland and Britain were like since these are the regions where the Angles and Saxons would have borrowed them.

I made one error: "Shopping mall" in Spanish should be centro comercial not comercio central (a tricky one) however, the Puerto Ricans and some other Latin Americans also use chopínmál and mall (as in 'cosas de comprar en el mall' = things to buy in the mall) alongside the Spanish word. 'Supermall' seems to be popular with Spanish speakers in the United States right now (as in 'al supermall cerca de Auburn' = at the supermall near Auburn).
JGreco   Tuesday, April 19, 2005, 18:08 GMT
Actually there really is not a word in Spanish that would designate the word Mall. The literal translation for the word mall or shopping mall in spanish does not exist. Most people would say something like "Voy a la tienda" meaning a general term for a store of "ir de compras", or just call the location by name such as in Panama one would say "Voy a la Avenida Central para comprar unos cosas, unos ropas, etc etc (which lierally means I am going to Central Avenue (market) to buy some things, close, what ever you want to convey to the other speaker. Speech in Spanish among average people talking whether or not if they know each other is always informal speech and does't follow really specific grammatical types.
JGreco   Tuesday, April 19, 2005, 18:10 GMT
Oops, close= clothes
Frances   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 00:36 GMT
JGreco - but there is a formal Spanish isn't there? (please excuse my ignorance). Presumably used in public office, publications etc
JGreco   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 01:47 GMT
Just as it was discussed in a thread were Brazilian Portuguese was discussed. There is a formal grammatical way of writing American Spanish that would be used in official publications, or scientific writings. But, when someone is talking Spanish they do not always use formal talk. It is like saying in formal English "You are beutiful" that isn't really said. Most people would say "Your beutiful." If all English speakers used formal English we would talk like educated Londoners all over the English speaking world.
Deborah   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 02:02 GMT
Being educated and from London doesn't preclude a person from speaking informally.
Joaquin   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 06:07 GMT
>>Joaquin: I've read that Tagalog has some borrowings from Chinese as well as Spanish because Chinese merchants were always there. In fact, chili peppers apparently came to China via the Philippines where the Spanish brought them in from Mexico.<<

Yes, that's true Brennus. The Chinese were trading with the islanders long before the Spanish arrived, and they never left. There are hundreds of Chinese living in the Philippines. They dominate industry and commerce in the Philippines and are among the richest people in this poor country. This has led to deep resentment among the local populace, who are usually employed as maids, chauffeurs, and servants to Chinese households.

But back to language. There are a few Hokkien words in the Tagalog language. Mostly they are names of our favorite dishes, like pancit, lumpia, siopao, siomai, batsoy, bihoy, hopia, mami, miswa, taho, etc., but also 'kuya' (older brother), 'ate' (older sister), 'hikaw' (earring), 'buwisit' (annoyed), 'husi' (woven cloth made of silk), 'lawlaw' (loose, ill-fitting), 'susi' (key), 'hiya' (shame), and several others.

Of course, we also have our favorite Spanish-style dishes, like chicken relleno, paella, morcon, embutido, caldereta, empanada, arroz caldo, chicken fritada, leche flan, 'brazo de mercedes', champorado, ensaimada, pasillas de leche, etc.

Tagalog also has a few Sanskrit words - asa (hope), salita (speak), and balita (news), a few Tamil words - mangga (mango), bagay (thing), Persian - alak (liquor), and Arabic - hukom (judge), salamat (thank you).

It's not surprising that chili peppers came to China from Mexico via the Philippines. The prosperous Manila Galleons that sailed from Acapulco to Manila Bay in the 16th-19th centuries brought a wealth of exotic riches to both sides of the Pacific. In fact, it is believed that the guayabera shirt, famous throughout Cuba and Latin America, originated in the Philippines. If you take a look at the 'barong tagalog' the national attire of the Philippines, you'll see the similarity. It is also said that these ships were staffed with Filipino slaves who frequently 'intermixed' with the people of Acapulco. The galleons also docked in San Diego and Monterey, CA, which would mean that the possibility that some Filipino genes were left behind in California long before the Anglos arrived is likely. ;-) In fact, it is well documented that Filipinos jumped ship when Mexico declared their independence from Spain, and established settlements in around New Orleans as early as 1763. I say all this because, when you think about the sad history of Filipino immigrants in the US, it is ironic that we were there before the US ever settled those lands.
JGreco   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 06:09 GMT
Usually when an American thinks of where proper English is spoken the first thing that comes to mind is London. It may be a nieve opinion though, but in many ways it is true. Even in movies when you here an English character speak you think of it as proper English or I guess correct English.
JGreco   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 06:14 GMT
>>Joaquin<<

Don't forget Chicken Adobo, Adobo is also used as a term in many Latin American cuisines. I mention this because the chicken and pork Adobo varieties are two of my favourite dishes that I get from are local Filipino restaurants in my home town.
Kirk   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 06:27 GMT
"Actually there really is not a word in Spanish that would designate the word Mall"

Well, at least in Argentine Spanish "un shopping" is the word specifically used to refer to the US-style of shopping malls that are relatively common in Buenos Aires. If there's any confusion over how they use it there, check out this link with a list of some popular malls in the Buenos Aires metro area, and you can see how the word is used by those who give ratings to each of "los shoppings."

http://ar.livra.com/topiclist.asp?T=104&V-486=1178
Travis   Wednesday, April 20, 2005, 06:29 GMT
Of course, what such Americans are thinking of is Received Pronunciation or historical Home Counties English, not Estuary English or the historical English of London itself, which is Cockney (but has been recently been rather replaced by Estuary English). However, no matter what some Americans may happen to think about certain varieties of English English, the sort of English that has been historically generally thought of as "accentless" or "neutral" from an American standpoint (even though there truly isn't such a thing, of course) is certainly not any sort of English English, but rather traditionally various sorts of what is today Northern Central American English, but historically has been called Northern Inland American English (but that today refers to post-Northern Cities Shift pronunciation, with dialects that have not experienced the Northern Cities Shift from what was such being under the heading of Northern Central American English). Today, it's said though by some that the English that in the US is generally most regarded as such though is that used by media figures from California, but that generally is probably not that far from Northern Central American English, even though the English that is actually spoken in California today by much of the general population is non-"cot"-"caught"-distinguishing, except in some limited areas, and has had the California Vowel Shift, neither of which would probably be regarded as "neutral" by Americans in general across the board.