Can a foreigner speak and/or write English better than native users of English?
Can a foreigner speak and/or write English better than nativ
With writing, there are of course second language learners who can write better than native speakers. There are native-speaker illiterates and functional illiterates in every language, and many who have trouble writing correctly. A fluent foreigner can do better.
With speaking, it depends on your definition of "better." When people talk about foreigners who speak "better" than some Americans or Brits, what they really mean is that they speak closer to the "rules" of the grammar books. That does not make them better speakers, at least according to the real "rules" of contemporary colloquial speech.
Of course, foreigners may speak closer to the "standard" dialect. They can speak better "standard" English, but that does not make them better speakers in the absolute sense.
However, as with writing, some people are able to better express themselves in speaking. In this sense, a highly fluent foreigner can speak "better" than a native.
With speaking, it depends on your definition of "better." When people talk about foreigners who speak "better" than some Americans or Brits, what they really mean is that they speak closer to the "rules" of the grammar books. That does not make them better speakers, at least according to the real "rules" of contemporary colloquial speech.
Of course, foreigners may speak closer to the "standard" dialect. They can speak better "standard" English, but that does not make them better speakers in the absolute sense.
However, as with writing, some people are able to better express themselves in speaking. In this sense, a highly fluent foreigner can speak "better" than a native.
Often foreigners can express themselves better than native speakers, although I really think this has more to do with intelligence than linguistic ability.
There are people who can better express themselves in written language, even in their native tounge.
A foreigner speaking english may not be better than a native speaker according to the standard, but according to the dialect he or she most intensively was exposed to.
If a native speaker only seldomly uses his or her mother tounge, and if he or she usually doesn't write something down, so his speaking may not be as eloquent as that of a foreigner who frequently uses his skills.
It' not just a matter of intelligence. By the way, what is intelligence? Everybody defines it different.
A foreigner speaking english may not be better than a native speaker according to the standard, but according to the dialect he or she most intensively was exposed to.
If a native speaker only seldomly uses his or her mother tounge, and if he or she usually doesn't write something down, so his speaking may not be as eloquent as that of a foreigner who frequently uses his skills.
It' not just a matter of intelligence. By the way, what is intelligence? Everybody defines it different.
<<Can a foreigner speak and/or write English better than native users of English?>>
No.
No.
I'm Swedish and we have a few non-native writers/lyric-writers in our country who master the language better than most native speakers, for example Cornelis Vreeswijk - Dutch and Theodor Kallifatides - Greek (I don't know about the pronunciation of the latter). There are also a lot of skilled foreign teachers and interpreters out there. Many of my friends constantly use the wrong words or make grammatical mistakes in their own language and a few clicks on a blog portal quickly gives you an idea of how many Swedes out there suck at Swedish.
I guess this has to be the case for all languages.
I guess this has to be the case for all languages.
I thought of Conrad as well. Let's say that some non-natives can write best than most natives, but the best non-native speaker probably cannot write better than the best native writer. I don't think that Conrad tops Shakespeare, for example.
I think that there are too many "in-words". Unless you grow up bilingually, you can't always know how people talk in the privacy of their homes. You may know the salty language of sailors on ships or the academic language of professors, but you won't really know the home language. Jmo.
I think that there are too many "in-words". Unless you grow up bilingually, you can't always know how people talk in the privacy of their homes. You may know the salty language of sailors on ships or the academic language of professors, but you won't really know the home language. Jmo.
I developed an interesting analogy on this topic.
Learning your first language as a child is like learning to drive a car.
Learning a second language when you are a bit older is like building the car from scratch as you learn.
Many times in the classroom I've been asked 'Why do you say this in English' and I've had to go away and find out as talking English just comes naturally to me. But when speaking Portuguese, I understand the patterns and formulae and irregularities more clearly.
Learning your first language as a child is like learning to drive a car.
Learning a second language when you are a bit older is like building the car from scratch as you learn.
Many times in the classroom I've been asked 'Why do you say this in English' and I've had to go away and find out as talking English just comes naturally to me. But when speaking Portuguese, I understand the patterns and formulae and irregularities more clearly.
Actually, very few native speakers speak correct, it is true for any language. So a foreiner can learn and speak better than a native user. And one can say that he/she is a foreigner because he/she speaks too accurate
>>>You may know the salty language of sailors on ships or the academic language of professors, but you won't really know the home language. Jmo.
As natural as it is in our real world. Neither language teachers of any background nor native speakers have the authority to claim authority over a language. Whether you are native in it and you can write in another better than natives aren't very important. No one really cares whether you write badly or well. Linguistic proficiency is so much easier to attain than cultural proficiency, and it's almost impossible, like what you say, to gain a second lang as a home one. I can't live for multiple lifetimes, and I won't bother to translate everything of my own discourse into any language I know.
I'm proud to cuss in my native language rather than in Mandarin and English because profanity of both is too weak - and I can't cuss at all unless I have a second life because I could be running a risk of offending someone unconsciously.
As natural as it is in our real world. Neither language teachers of any background nor native speakers have the authority to claim authority over a language. Whether you are native in it and you can write in another better than natives aren't very important. No one really cares whether you write badly or well. Linguistic proficiency is so much easier to attain than cultural proficiency, and it's almost impossible, like what you say, to gain a second lang as a home one. I can't live for multiple lifetimes, and I won't bother to translate everything of my own discourse into any language I know.
I'm proud to cuss in my native language rather than in Mandarin and English because profanity of both is too weak - and I can't cuss at all unless I have a second life because I could be running a risk of offending someone unconsciously.