Here's mine:
Don't pay big money for language programs that will only bring you to an intermediate level.
Don't pay big money for language programs that will only bring you to an intermediate level.
Language Tips
Like Rosetta Stone?
I've never used it, so I wouldn't know... I just know it's expensive...
I've never used it, so I wouldn't know... I just know it's expensive...
Here's mine:
Bilingual texts with audios, and preferably with notes and minimal grammatical study, rule.
Bilingual texts with audios, and preferably with notes and minimal grammatical study, rule.
Here's mine:
After your second foreign language NEVER use a book written in your mother tongue and be ALWAYS sure to listen to the material you're studying so you can develop your listening skills at the same time.
As soon as you can feel comfortable in the language, get a monolingual dictionary (When I studied Japanese, German and English I started using such dictionaries after about 2 years of study. Now I got to the point of using Spanish, Chinese and French monolingual dictionaries).
Many people don't like to study grammar rules but I see them as indispensable so that one can speak not only fluently but also correctly.
Since I talked about monolingual dictionaries, here are my hints:
German: Langenscheidts Großwörterbuch (Deutsch als Fremdsprache) or Duden Deutsches Universal Wörterbuch A-Z
Japanese: 現代国語例解辞典
Chinese: 现代汉语词典
Spanish: Diccionario de la Real Academia Española
I also like dictionaries in languages other than my native Portuguese such as:
Prisma Duits-Nederlands Woordenboek
Grosses Deutsch-Japanisches Wörterbuch
Suomi-Saksa-Suomi sanakirja
etc...
After your second foreign language NEVER use a book written in your mother tongue and be ALWAYS sure to listen to the material you're studying so you can develop your listening skills at the same time.
As soon as you can feel comfortable in the language, get a monolingual dictionary (When I studied Japanese, German and English I started using such dictionaries after about 2 years of study. Now I got to the point of using Spanish, Chinese and French monolingual dictionaries).
Many people don't like to study grammar rules but I see them as indispensable so that one can speak not only fluently but also correctly.
Since I talked about monolingual dictionaries, here are my hints:
German: Langenscheidts Großwörterbuch (Deutsch als Fremdsprache) or Duden Deutsches Universal Wörterbuch A-Z
Japanese: 現代国語例解辞典
Chinese: 现代汉语词典
Spanish: Diccionario de la Real Academia Española
I also like dictionaries in languages other than my native Portuguese such as:
Prisma Duits-Nederlands Woordenboek
Grosses Deutsch-Japanisches Wörterbuch
Suomi-Saksa-Suomi sanakirja
etc...
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I really dislike materials that focus a lot on conversation from start to finish... The reason is you really can't have a basic conversation without knowing the vocabulary and the grammar, and it's thus useless to attempt to start off with "hello, I am from America, at what time does the train leave, can I have a first class compartment?" And alot of times the conversations are atypical or unusual... It just seems like it should be added in in later lessons...
This is my problem with the "teach yourself" guides. I personally would rather start off with a couple of lessons of learning vocabulary, how to conjugate simple verbs, and practicing those in speech rather than memorizing conversations where you don't know why it's day one and you're learning the subjunctive on the first day when you learn to ask for things...
This is my problem with the "teach yourself" guides. I personally would rather start off with a couple of lessons of learning vocabulary, how to conjugate simple verbs, and practicing those in speech rather than memorizing conversations where you don't know why it's day one and you're learning the subjunctive on the first day when you learn to ask for things...
>>Don't pay big money for language programs that will only bring you to an intermediate level.
But you can have them for free. Search "Rosetta Stone" on isoHunt.com and eMule. Also on eMule search "EuroTalk".
But you can have them for free. Search "Rosetta Stone" on isoHunt.com and eMule. Also on eMule search "EuroTalk".
You're telling me! Intelligently designed courses are those that introduce möchte a bit earlier but tell you 2 or 3 lessons (or chapters, 5 pages each) that it's subjunctive. The Chinese scholars who ask students to recite loads of "dumb" vocab, such as photosynthesis in chapter 6 of volume 1, still write better grammatical things than the TYS.
We still have Hugo (with its much reduced collection) and Assimil, fortunately...
We still have Hugo (with its much reduced collection) and Assimil, fortunately...
'This is my problem with the "teach yourself" guides. I personally would rather start off with a couple of lessons of learning vocabulary, how to conjugate simple verbs, and practicing those in speech rather than memorizing conversations where you don't know why it's day one and you're learning the subjunctive on the first day when you learn to ask for things...'
you are right about "teach yourself" guides, they say to memorize conversations without understanding grammar rules in it. and this way one forgets these conversations without grammar explanations base soon. as for me i found the best way for me when i study any language. i composed in "excel" nearly 10 essential talking subjects with often-used words in it. for ex subject 'character' below i write corresponding to this subject words like: kind, open-hearted, funny, stubborn' etc with translation or such subject as 'eating' i write there words as 'eggs, potatoes, apples etc. it is surely not easy to compose and type such number of needed words in every subject you need, but it's worth! after having learned essential grammar of the language you just open subject you need and use listed there words, learning them at the same time.and this way there will be no problem to talk about every subject you want. in add to you are not limited in vocabulary you got from 'teach yourself' guides or other books. what do you think about this method?
you are right about "teach yourself" guides, they say to memorize conversations without understanding grammar rules in it. and this way one forgets these conversations without grammar explanations base soon. as for me i found the best way for me when i study any language. i composed in "excel" nearly 10 essential talking subjects with often-used words in it. for ex subject 'character' below i write corresponding to this subject words like: kind, open-hearted, funny, stubborn' etc with translation or such subject as 'eating' i write there words as 'eggs, potatoes, apples etc. it is surely not easy to compose and type such number of needed words in every subject you need, but it's worth! after having learned essential grammar of the language you just open subject you need and use listed there words, learning them at the same time.and this way there will be no problem to talk about every subject you want. in add to you are not limited in vocabulary you got from 'teach yourself' guides or other books. what do you think about this method?
>>you are right about "teach yourself" guides, they say to memorize conversations without understanding grammar rules in it.
I don't know what your native language is, but I learned my language through grammatical instructions too. I'm still not quite clear but "why" something should be as it is, but at least I've been taught to read without any difficulty. What did I get? I got discourse. I received massive input through daily exposure without "knowing" grammar or about it. Theoretically, Chinese should have grammar like English, and though many of us say it has none, when I sit peacefully and write an article, a letter, or an assignment, I HAVE to correct myself based on what I know. I still haven't read a grammar book properly but I'm perfectly fine with any novels, newspapers, manuals of appliances, government documents, academic publications, and all that!
I know 英文在不同地區都有很大差異, but I can see 英文都在不同地區有很大差異 (as part of my new article in my journal today) doesn't sound quite right, at least that's what a highly educated person knows, whose native written language is HK Chinese. The first should be fairly "Mandarin", and I'm perfectly fine with both in my native city, but in written form only the first is (or seems) correct. I don't have to analyze it; or I can ask a professor of that language, but I think s/he would also say the first at least makes more sense.
I think TYS could be very distracting, visually and aurally, with all that English.... but well, let's be more optimistic. I'm convincing myself to go through every book they have for my target languages. Let me treat them as a language guide for the utterly confused (or sth similar) or yet another book of the "language learning" literature.
I don't know what your native language is, but I learned my language through grammatical instructions too. I'm still not quite clear but "why" something should be as it is, but at least I've been taught to read without any difficulty. What did I get? I got discourse. I received massive input through daily exposure without "knowing" grammar or about it. Theoretically, Chinese should have grammar like English, and though many of us say it has none, when I sit peacefully and write an article, a letter, or an assignment, I HAVE to correct myself based on what I know. I still haven't read a grammar book properly but I'm perfectly fine with any novels, newspapers, manuals of appliances, government documents, academic publications, and all that!
I know 英文在不同地區都有很大差異, but I can see 英文都在不同地區有很大差異 (as part of my new article in my journal today) doesn't sound quite right, at least that's what a highly educated person knows, whose native written language is HK Chinese. The first should be fairly "Mandarin", and I'm perfectly fine with both in my native city, but in written form only the first is (or seems) correct. I don't have to analyze it; or I can ask a professor of that language, but I think s/he would also say the first at least makes more sense.
I think TYS could be very distracting, visually and aurally, with all that English.... but well, let's be more optimistic. I'm convincing myself to go through every book they have for my target languages. Let me treat them as a language guide for the utterly confused (or sth similar) or yet another book of the "language learning" literature.
"Let me treat them as a language guide for the utterly confused (or sth similar) or yet another book of the "language learning" literature. "
I don't mean 'teach yourself' guides are useless or so. I just mean books with just some typical phrases in it, without grammar explanation can hardly help for beginners to learn any needed language. one can make good use of such kind of books just when he already knows grammar of the learning language and can understand why this sentence built like this. and if it is just beginner and he goes to memorize this without understanding base and structure of this sentence and sometimes without knowing translation of words used in it, that is really useless to use such books
I don't mean 'teach yourself' guides are useless or so. I just mean books with just some typical phrases in it, without grammar explanation can hardly help for beginners to learn any needed language. one can make good use of such kind of books just when he already knows grammar of the learning language and can understand why this sentence built like this. and if it is just beginner and he goes to memorize this without understanding base and structure of this sentence and sometimes without knowing translation of words used in it, that is really useless to use such books
But it'd be a joke that a supposedly beginner's book cannot get you started. Isn't it what TYS or any other companies look for, namely, to get people started and continue with (i.e. buy) sequels they offer? A smart enough team of writers, like at least some of those who write Assimil books, have been successful in at least attracting customers like me.
Having said that, Assimil isn't the only solution that works, and certainly won't be the only book I use. I'm learning French as well now, and I find Hugo's approach even more logical, though less funny. I'm still unsure about "you have" (German: du hast; French; tu as) until I saw it in lesson 52. I'm supposed to remember it, but it's natural for me to be curious about how to conjugate such a basic verb as have (avoir).
At any rate, since no book teaches everything, it'd be cleverer of me to treat them like graded primers.
Having said that, Assimil isn't the only solution that works, and certainly won't be the only book I use. I'm learning French as well now, and I find Hugo's approach even more logical, though less funny. I'm still unsure about "you have" (German: du hast; French; tu as) until I saw it in lesson 52. I'm supposed to remember it, but it's natural for me to be curious about how to conjugate such a basic verb as have (avoir).
At any rate, since no book teaches everything, it'd be cleverer of me to treat them like graded primers.
typo:
I'm NOT supposed to...
btw, Assimil, in some way like Pimsleur, is really for the absolute beginners. They could be someone who has never learned any language on his/her own, or even a polyglot. It doesn't let you learn grammar very consciously, as part of its method, ... but of course it's good enough as one of its own kind.
I'm NOT supposed to...
btw, Assimil, in some way like Pimsleur, is really for the absolute beginners. They could be someone who has never learned any language on his/her own, or even a polyglot. It doesn't let you learn grammar very consciously, as part of its method, ... but of course it's good enough as one of its own kind.
"It doesn't let you learn grammar very consciously, as part of its method, ... but of course it's good enough as one of its own kind. "
well, maybe that is the way you like to learn language and that is suitable for you.... but as for me, i get such kind of books without grammar explanations just when i'm sure about my grammar base.... otherwise i'm sure not understanding the sense of the most of learned by heart sentences that will take me some weeks to forget all these sentences at all. as for you said that you are supposed to remember it, but it's natural for you to be curious about how to conjugate such a basic verb as have (avoir). maybe this way you can memorize conjugation better but it must take you more time before you'll find out in any 52 lesson how to conjugate such necessary verb as avour /être. as for me that are precisely such verbs as avour /être, haben/sein, ha/vara, hebben/ zijn that i start to learn from.
well, maybe that is the way you like to learn language and that is suitable for you.... but as for me, i get such kind of books without grammar explanations just when i'm sure about my grammar base.... otherwise i'm sure not understanding the sense of the most of learned by heart sentences that will take me some weeks to forget all these sentences at all. as for you said that you are supposed to remember it, but it's natural for you to be curious about how to conjugate such a basic verb as have (avoir). maybe this way you can memorize conjugation better but it must take you more time before you'll find out in any 52 lesson how to conjugate such necessary verb as avour /être. as for me that are precisely such verbs as avour /être, haben/sein, ha/vara, hebben/ zijn that i start to learn from.
No, Assimil does teach a lot of grammar, and I sort of got stuck without a second manual for German, which had been a great loss.
But at any rate, I think it's important to "compare" different representations (courses) of the same language to get the most from it. They may have typos, they may interpret the same thing/the same concept/topic differently... just like how the German Präteritum is being treated in multiple books I have. Unlike appliances which should perform the same functions, maybe with slightly different specifications for the same price... grammar books and course books could be presented as differently as dictionaries.
The most important of all is HOW info. may be presented wrongly, like having typos. In some sense, the study of language is quite similar to that of history - the diligent reader gets the most from it.
But at any rate, I think it's important to "compare" different representations (courses) of the same language to get the most from it. They may have typos, they may interpret the same thing/the same concept/topic differently... just like how the German Präteritum is being treated in multiple books I have. Unlike appliances which should perform the same functions, maybe with slightly different specifications for the same price... grammar books and course books could be presented as differently as dictionaries.
The most important of all is HOW info. may be presented wrongly, like having typos. In some sense, the study of language is quite similar to that of history - the diligent reader gets the most from it.
What about memorizing text? (Not grammar rules.) It's been mentioned before, but Heinrich Schliemann (the guy who unearthed Troy) learned a slew of languages with little or no grammar study by memorizing sections of books (or even complete books!). He would use a book in his target language, and the same book in a language he already knew, for comprehension:
http://wiki.anomalytv.com/tavi/index.php?page=LanguageMethods
If someone challenged him on a point of grammar (for example, in Ancient Greek), he would simply reel off a passage from a book, and they couldn't argue with him.
http://wiki.anomalytv.com/tavi/index.php?page=LanguageMethods
If someone challenged him on a point of grammar (for example, in Ancient Greek), he would simply reel off a passage from a book, and they couldn't argue with him.