Why are non-native speakers so obsessed with RP?
When we learn other languages such as French or German, we don't go around splitting hairs regarding the differences among various dialects the way that non-native speakers of English do. Germans have even gone so far as to define something called "Anglistik" vs "Amerikanistik" when it comes to studying the language as if they were two distinct separate languages, even though the regional differences in their own language are by far greater than any differences between BE and AE.
It grates my nerves every time I read "Übersetzt aus dem Amerikanischen". How would Austrian readers like to an article in an American newspaper or magazine that is said to have been "translated from the Austrian"?
You make a good point! I think it may be because people learning English as a second (or third, etc) language may perceive RP to be superior, or "high class"... it's spoken by the Queen after all. So perhaps they feel they'll be learning the purest and most respected brand of English.
<<"Übersetzt aus dem Amerikanischen". >>
I like that... in the US we jokingly say, "talk american" for "speak english" but it's very tongue in cheek and always done with an affected backwoods accent, in the same way we would say, "he talks real purty. Go git my banjo and some lard."
Because most if not all language courses labeled as British English feature RP accent, so it's that what students want to find the next when they search for real content.
It's the same with Spanish, you've got neutral Latin American Spanish and Castilian Spanish, but the fact is that neutral LA Spanish is spoken nowhere, and Castilian is not even the most spoken accent in Spain, Southern and transitional accents are far more spoken.
".... it's that what students want to find the next when they search for real content."
It must be frustrating for them to find that most people don't speak like that.
Yeah, Imagine how I felt when I started watching British TV shows and films. The first time I heard an odd glottal stop in the middle of a word I thought the bloke was playing a stammerer, but over the weeks I realised it couldn't be so many stammerers in Britain.
Perhaps schools in foreign countries should stop obsessing about RP and just try to get students to speak clearly, even if it mean *gasp* sounding like an American.
The UK once had a King who was afflicted by the curse of stammering - George VI - the father of the present Queen Elizabeth II. He was never groomed to be the British King, and the fact that he was thrust into it most unexpectedly due to the Abdication of his brother, in December 1936, stressed the poor bloke so much that he went through a phase of acute stammering (whch had been present since early boyhood) which resulted in pretty intensive remedial action, and thanks to his determined efforts to reduce the problem, and the professional assistance given to him, he more or less cured himself of it, but not absolutely, as there were times when it reappeared to a lesser extent during moments of stress and anxiety, as early in his reign he had to face a wartime Britain and all the horrors that produced. Even his own London home - Buckingham Palace - was partly damaged by bombing.
His brother, who reigned as King Edward VIII for barely a year, had fallen in love with a twice divorced American woman, Wallis Simpson, from Maryland, USA, and this relationship threw the entire British Establishment into total disarray as the British Constitution did not permit a British monarch to marry a divorced person (and this woman had actually divorced two guys, both still living at the time of the Abdication crisis - and when her relationship with the Prince of Wales (as he was at the time) she was still married to the man Simpson.
Edward became King in January 1936 on the death of his father George V, at which time the relationship had developed to the state where Edward desperately wanted to marry this American women. There was press censorship on the entire affair in the UK right until December 1936, whereas the press in the rest of the world published all the gory details.
The fact that Wallis Simpson was an American made the whole thing much worse - sorry, but that's the way it was in those days. If she had married Edward she would have become Queen, and a Queen with an American accent, let alone a twice divorced Queen, with two ex husbands still living, horrified the British public - as it did the whole British Establishment, who more or less drove Edward into a corner from which he could not escape unless he put duty before his personal life and told this woman Wallis that there was no future for them as a married couple, or even to be in any kind of relationship whatsoever.
So Edward had a choice - the monarchy or exile from his homeland. He chose the latter - he abdicated on 11 December 1936, became Duke of Windsor (merely as some kind of sop), his bro became King George VI, and he and his American "girlfriend" went into exile for ever - never to be aloowed to settle anywhere in Britain.
They went to France initially, married there in June 1937, and then went to live in the Bahamas (where he was given the ineffectual "job" of Governor General), lived for a while in New York, but eventually made their home at a secluded mansion in the Bois de Boulogne, Paris.
The only time Edward was allowed back into Britain was to be buried here in 1972....she was at his funeral but the old Queen Mother refused to meet up with her.....he was laid to rest in the grounds of Windsor Castle. She joined him there in 1986 when she eventually snuffed it after years of vodka soaked isolationism, so at least they were finally allowed back into Britain and reunited, but only on account of death.
As for the accent thing - I really don't think, even now, many years later, the British public, or the still existent British Establishment, with its stong conservatism, would entertain the idea of a Queen, or consort, who had an American accent. That's just the way it is.
Do remember - Brits just love to whinge and moan about anything....as has been fully discussed elsewhere in this Forum. ;-)
I've never understood why learners obsess over it either. A lot of the time there is actually much less difference between the two varieties than they think. They're not two separate languages and most of the time they are perfectly mutually intelligible. And it makes me laugh how learners talk about how they are learning British pronunciation or American pronunciation. A lot of the time they sound neither American nor British, just foreign. I remember, for instance, a Spanish man telling me that he was learning BE and spoke with a British accent. I thought to myself "No, you're speaking with a Spanish accent. Your English sounds neither British nor American."
Learners must get it through their heads that it does not matter whether they are learning BE or AE! It's the same language and you will never sound like either of them! As long as you can speak clearly and be understood, that is all that matters!
British people have told me that they have an easier time understanding Americans than they do some of their own countrymen. This is something very surprising to many Germans.
Really? I'm just a beginner at learning English, and when I hear someone who learned AMERICAN English, I always notice it. It's amazing that a native speaker can't do it. It's the same with Spanish which happens to be my native language, I can tell apart the people who has learned some kind of Latin American Spanish from those who use a Peninsular accent, or at least try to do so.
I don't know if it is obsession, but I find useful to focus on a particular kind of English until you are in a more advanced stage, it's not just about achieving an accent, I think it is more efficient. Mixing pronunciations is a mess, so I prefer to pay more attention to the accents in England, and espeacially the Southern ones. Of course it has to do a lot with my general interest in this country. Maybe it doesn't matter for the way natives perceive my manner of speaking, but it's important to me. You know, motivation is a key factor in learning a language.
So you are the native, but it's difficult to agree with you, I mean, most of the time you can guess where someone picked their accent from, it's so obvious in Spanish that I tend to think it's the same in other languages, maybe I'm wrong, but the funny thing is that Americans are not very good at telling apart accents of their own language. I've known Spaniards staying in the US who have been mistaken for native speakers from God knows where, just because they had learned British English.
"...but the funny thing is that Americans are not very good at telling apart accents of their own language."
Yes we can tell. Of course you can always find the the proverbial ignorant "man on the street to support any argument, but this probably goes for anywhere.
"I've known Spaniards staying in the US who have been mistaken for native speakers from God knows where, just because they had learned British English."
If your friends aren't just feeding you a load of BS and the Americans they are referring aren't the idiot "man on the street" type of people then most likely all they experienced was either politeness mixed with sarcasm. We can tell a Brit from a Spaniard as soon as they open their mouths. The Spanish don't sound any more British to us than they do to the Brits. We definitely hear a Spanish accent, not a British one although we can often tell if they had learned a British pronunciation as opposed to an American one, we are still not fooled into thinking that they are British any more than the British would be.
Brian put it nicely above:
"And it makes me laugh how learners talk about how they are learning British pronunciation or American pronunciation. A lot of the time they sound neither American nor British, just foreign. I remember, for instance, a Spanish man telling me that he was learning BE and spoke with a British accent. I thought to myself "No, you're speaking with a Spanish accent. Your English sounds neither British nor American."
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Learners must get it through their heads that it does not matter whether they are learning BE or AE! It's the same language and you will never sound like either of them!">>
No, I've met non-native speakers who spoke with a british accent...you can tell which form of english someone learns from hearing them speak.
Example: Brazilian guy speaking BE.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H86aT9k7aBs
No, I've met non-native speakers who spoke with a british accent...you can tell which form of english someone learns from hearing them speak.
Example: Brazilian guy speaking BE.
There will always be some exceptions. The youtube video you referenced appers to be a British TV show, and there is no telling how long the speaker has lived in Britain.
Does it state in the video how or where he learned English?
This is a nice example of a secundum quid or logical fallacy of accident,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accident_(fallacy)
There was no mistake with the link. Antimoon, does not recognise underscores in URLs