Is English a bastardised German?

"Back to the ur-fraign ("original question"), No, English is not bastardized German (i.e. Deutsch). But it is kinda like a bastardized germanic, which in my behuide ("opinion"), is worse.

It's Anglo-Saxon with a Romance roard [i.e. Latin-French] wanna-be complex ("Romance language wanna-be complex").

Wake up leed ("people"), we don't share in the erode urflave ("direct inheritance") of Rome and Athens. We are befellward well-behoalands ("incidental beneficiaries").


fraign n. [frān] < OE frægn - question
behuide n. [be-'hīd] < OE gehygd - belief, opinion
roard n. [rōrd] < OE reord - language, voice, speech
leed n. [lēd] < lēod - people
erode adj. [ə-'rōd] < OE gerād ("direct")
urflave n. ['urv-'lāf] < OE yrfelāf ('urve'-"orphan"+'lafe'-smthng left)
behoaland n. [be-'hōl-ənd]-'recipient' < behoal ("obtain") < OE geholian "

It's amazing how much vocabulary has been replaced in English.

<<It's amazing how much vocabulary has been replaced in English. >>

errisoned, thaved and bethighted ("agreed", "agreed" and, um, "Agreed").

I think we can ennimb ("reclaim") some of it though and it would be alright

<<ennimb ("reclaim")>>

also, "gaintake"

"It's Anglo-Saxon with a Romance roard [i.e. Latin-French] wanna-be complex ("Romance language wanna-be complex")."

No it is not, English is actually a barstardized french with a "Germanic wanna-be complex".

There's practically nothing left in the Modern English tongue that classifies it as "Germanic". "Germanicness" is nothing but a distant memory...

"Take things here in southern Wisconsin, for instance. German cultural influence has largely become part of the local culture, and just what portion of one's ancestors happened to be ethnically German is largely irrelevant if one is not black or descended from very recent immigrants (as in the last 40 or so years). One can very well be, say, largely Polish in descent, and yet have been influenced far more by German culture than by Polish culture, as the local culture is practically German American in character, while very little Polish cultural influence has been passed on to younger generations. Technically speaking, I myself am "more Polish" than "German" with respect to descent, and yet I tend to identify far more with German culture (and tend to find German culture overall to be far more familiar than Polish culture) due to being raised in the local culture"

LOL, OK, now I think I'm beginning to gain access to the true American psyche... So if you are "not black" and not "descended from very recent immigrants" it's ok to claim that you are German, even if you are actually Polish? May I ask how did you identify yourself in the last Census?

Could you tell me just what in hell makes you think that Southern Wiscousin is "culturally german"? What aspect of German culture, as you see it, permeates your society? As a German who has lived in the US, I find this statement to be quite out of touch with reality, to say the least.

Damian, thank you for your correction. I don't mind being corrected (when I am misinformed) it only helps to further knowledge, which I am always fond of. I always wondered why his name was not Scottish. I guess NPR must have fibbed to me, dirty bastards. And, as for his style, while it contains much of the simplicity and natural elements traditional to British music, it is also important to note the French influence that was instilled by his teacher, Ravel, which accounts for much of the chromatics in his work. So, combining something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5C99JyP2ns

with something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xvwPMuCZEU

to get something like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbcuteYm-EA

But I think this kind of borrowing is not too unusual. For instance, Dvorak's borrowing elements of African American spirituals for his New World Symphony or Samuel Barber taking a hybridized Anglo/American style for his Agnus Dei: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1gmgPFt_ww
And since there are always going to be dissenters, yes there is an American form of classical music, most often characterized by George Gershwin and Aaron Copland: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzf0rvQa4Mc


Of course things change over time and American Minimalism, like that of John Adams in his Shaker loops and Phillip Glass in his opera trilogy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pd1V7M2Ia8
seems to be the fashion of the last few years.

>>LOL, OK, now I think I'm beginning to gain access to the true American psyche... So if you are "not black" and not "descended from very recent immigrants" it's ok to claim that you are German, even if you are actually Polish? May I ask how did you identify yourself in the last Census?<<

I was talking about culture versus descent. The matter is that German culture has had more impact on the culture here than Polish culture, whose influence has been practically erased here. In my own case, for such reasons I really have not been inclined to identify as ethnically Polish exactly because at a personal level such is practically meaningless - just like how in much of the US a German last name is a last name and nothing more.

As for the "actually Polish" part, I am nearly half ethnically Polish and half ethnically German, due to my mom being ethnically Polish and my dad being mostly ethnically German. The part that makes it more complex is that my father's side of the family intermarried with the French back in Europe due to part of his family being originally from Alsace (which had switched hands over the centuries between France and various German states).

>>Could you tell me just what in hell makes you think that Southern Wiscousin is "culturally german"? What aspect of German culture, as you see it, permeates your society? As a German who has lived in the US, I find this statement to be quite out of touch with reality, to say the least.<<

I said German American, not German - the culture here is most undoubtedly *not* German, and has undergone more than a century or so of very strong Americanization combined with a century combined with being all but completely disconnected with Germany since WW1. It rather is Upper Midwestern, but mind you that historical German influence has significantly shaped modern Upper Midwestern culture outside of the areas where there was overwhelming Nordic influence. I myself tend to normally identify myself as an Upper Midwesterner, but at the same time I do not forget the historical influence of German settlement here.

<<No it is not, English is actually a barstardized french with a "Germanic wanna-be complex".

There's practically nothing left in the Modern English tongue that classifies it as "Germanic". "Germanicness" is nothing but a distant memory... >>

Not so.
English is nothing like French--which incidentally is itself a very Germanicized form of Romance language.

There's nothing Germanic about English??? Our grammar is 100% germanic (mind you--not German--but germanic. two different things). French grammar is largely influenced by neighboring germanic languages, like Frankish/Dutch too.

Our core vocabulary is germanic, and 15% of words borrowed from Romance languages, like French in English are germanic (like "regard", "boulevard", "engage", "choice", "chic", "coiff", "gourmet").

You've got to be kidding me

"<> <> <> <>, <> <> actual<> <> <>iz<> <> <> <> "Germanic <>-<> complex".

<><> practical<> <> <> <> <> Modern <> <> <> classifi<> <> <> "Germanic". "Germanic<>" <> <> <> <> distant memory... "

With all the "Germanic" words and particles taken out--

Sentence structure and syntax: Germanic.
Modifiers placed in front of nouns ("distant memory"): Germanic.
Verbal Tenses, Constructions (future tense, past tense, etc) and Moods: Germanic.
Inflections for nouns (-e/-es), comparitives for adjectives(more + , most + ; -er, -est), etc: Germanic.

Hmmmm, seems pretty much Germanic to me

"There's nothing Germanic about English??? Our grammar is 100% germanic (mind you--not German--but germanic. two different things). French grammar is largely influenced by neighboring germanic languages, like Frankish/Dutch too."

What "grammar" for God's sakes? Modern English HAS PRACTICALLY NO GRAMMAR! German is the most Germanic of all Germanic languages... Icelandic follows behind. Swedish, Norwegian, Danish, Dutch are bastardized (simplified) versions of German.

"Our core vocabulary is germanic, and 15% of words borrowed from Romance languages, like French in English are germanic (like "regard", "boulevard", "engage", "choice", "chic", "coiff", "gourmet")."

The modern English tongue has hardly any internal structure left that would classify it as Germanic... it has only residual traces wich serve as a reminder that it once was a Germanic language. So all we really are left with in English is its Lexicon... and about 60% (or even more, in some estimates) of the English vocabulary is Latinate.

So what all of you who desperately want to think of English as "Germanic" have left to hold on is the "Core vocabulary" thing... good luck with that.

>>The modern English tongue has hardly any internal structure left that would classify it as Germanic... it has only residual traces wich serve as a reminder that it once was a Germanic language. So all we really are left with in English is its Lexicon... and about 60% (or even more, in some estimates) of the English vocabulary is Latinate.

So what all of you who desperately want to think of English as "Germanic" have left to hold on is the "Core vocabulary" thing... good luck with that.<<

The thing, though, is that all the change that has occurred to English grammar over the centuries has been almost purely internal in nature - and thus still Germanic, albeit in a progressive rather than conservative manner. Consider that most Germanic languages today, other than Icelandic, Faroese, and Elfdalian have largely lost or at least severely pared down the noun declension characteristic of the old Germanic languages - and yet their syntax and morphology is still just as much Germanic as a whole.

<<The modern English tongue has hardly any internal structure left that would classify it as Germanic... it has only residual traces wich serve as a reminder that it once was a Germanic language.>>

I think you're sorely confused about what "germanic" means, and what constitutes it.

According to you, then, Romance languages are not Latin, right? Because Romance languages with minimal exceptions (like Romanian) do not used Latin cases??? That's absurd.

The definition of 'Germanic' is NOT--"having an internal structure similar to Modern Hoch Deutsch"

Ridiculous.

*,Edconcern. far of english is as Full grammar is as*

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot to use GRAMMAR
What I meant to say was: As far as grammar is concerned, English is full of grammar.

Likewise, you need to know what grammar is. Grammar is not flection.

<<So what all of you who desperately want to think of English as "Germanic" have left to hold on is the "Core vocabulary" thing... good luck with that. >>

The thing with English's core vocabulary, really, is that it is near equivalent in size to the total vocabulary for most, if not all, other languages--approximately the same size as the entire French or Spanish lexicon.

Therefore, English core vocabulary is in fact a Complete Language Vocabulary in its own right. Anything above and beyond it, like Latinate words, is not real Cake. It's just icing :)

<<and about 60% (or even more, in some estimates) of the English vocabulary is Latinate. >>

60% Latin "derived"
Not Latin inherited or bequeathed

If Chinese borrowed dictionary entry words up to 60% from Latin, would it therefore no longer be a Sinitic language?

Would it be latin?

Chinese grammar is less complex than English.

"I think you're sorely confused about what "germanic" means, and what constitutes it."

Lol, oh, no problem then, please do "illuminate" me. What is it that "Germanic" means to you?