learning 3rd language through 2nd?

Xie   Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:45 pm GMT
And this is exactly what is happening to some of you in the States. I'm not bashing anyone, but it's you who still keep picking me up. Out of sight, out of mind. Mexico has so little to do with my country, except when people talk about the Spanish language, Mexican wines, and Mexican immigrants in the US. But those are (now you seem to want me explain that literally) relatively much less important topics for our small talks. When you say "Mexico", of course even less educated adults know it's a country, but that's all.

This doesn't apply to the US in our view, but plz disregard all PC ideas and acknowledge that fact that some countries are more important than others for different peoples.

Haha, I can go on and say a few of you who appeared in some US news reports didn't even know where Tibet was. So, was that an utter lack of geographical knowledge? Now, my understanding is: some of us do have a stereotype against you Americans for having utterly limited geo. knowledge. That is to say, those morons, like other morons from elsewhere, I suppose, are saying that you Americans don't know where Iraq is, and don't know that Britain speaks English. So, this is an inherently bad stereotype, and plz do spread the word and let us all not be ignorant.
Xie   Wed Jul 02, 2008 12:53 pm GMT
To the best of my knowledge, I know that we actually know very little about the world. For one thing, it's no big deal unless you're too willing to be ignorant, which could be personally damaging. For the other, I don't see the point, either, to auto-assume people must know something - esp. if you haven't even told them personally. The word pedantic is a good summary of this kind of snobbery.

Even if people don't know the answer to a simple question, I can see patient and modest people tell them the truth literally.

Well, again, here is my understanding: by the same token, many of "us" do try, naturally, to be understanding when explaining things to others. We won't expect everyone to be able to read English. If they don't know English, the kind-hearted put it in their native language. That, however, isn't exactly the way many companies show their terms and services at my place. Again, I'd say that's..... oh no, that's actually a potential fraud. To lock knowledge in a completely unknown foreign language is often a product of post-colonialism... and (linguistic) commercialism.

That is why I think ESL learners might have to struggle a bit more before they can read the L3 thru this L2 really comfortably.
Guest   Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:39 pm GMT
Don't the Chinese do geography in kindergarten? I learnt were Mexico was when I was about 4 , as did every one else, and Mexico is no more important for my country (India) than for China.
Geoff_One   Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:29 pm GMT
<< And this is exactly what is happening to some of you in the States. I'm not bashing anyone, but it's you who still keep picking me up. Out of sight, out of mind. Mexico has so little to do with my country, except when people talk about the Spanish language, Mexican wines, and Mexican immigrants in the US. But those are (now you seem to want me explain that literally) relatively much less important topics for our small talks. When you say "Mexico", of course even less educated adults know it's a country, but that's all.

This doesn't apply to the US in our view, but plz disregard all PC ideas and acknowledge that fact that some countries are more important than others for different peoples.

Haha, I can go on and say a few of you who appeared in some US news reports didn't even know where Tibet was. So, was that an utter lack of geographical knowledge? Now, my understanding is: some of us do have a stereotype against you Americans for having utterly limited geo. knowledge. That is to say, those morons, like other morons from elsewhere, I suppose, are saying that you Americans don't know where Iraq is, and don't know that Britain speaks English. So, this is an inherently bad stereotype, and plz do spread the word and let us all not be ignorant. >>

etc etc etc

Live and let live.
Caspian   Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:47 pm GMT
If one were Chinese and spoke Mandarin as their mother tongue, then the way that they would learn, say, German would be very different from the way an English person would attempt to do so. When one learns German grammar, it is explained using the grammar of the native language of the learner.
The Chinese have no word for 'the', so, presuming that they hadn't learnt English (unlikely, but this is a hypotetical situation), then it would take a long time to explain to them what this word is used for. An English person, however, would not need to learn this at all (apart from the cases), because we use the word 'the'.
Another example could be a Lithuanian speaker learning English; the Lithuanian language is governed by a complex case system; the nominative, accusative, dative, genitive, locative, vocative cases are in Lithuanian (I've probably missed one out). Were a Lithuanian person to learn English, he or she would feel as if it would be difficult to express himself or herself properly, as it would feel inaccurate and clumsy not to uses cases in English, despite the fact that only a few remnants of cases survive in English! A Chinese speaker learning English would have no problem with cases, because they do not exist in Chinese either.
Caspian   Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:50 pm GMT
Geoff, they aren't superlatives, they're adverbs.