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Moribunt languages: Low Saxon
Low German is dead. It died after the fall of the Hanseatic League and mass education in German. Only a few old people speak "it", and by "it" I mean less 'contaminated' versions of the older, real, Low Saxon language.
Pure languages do not exist. Some languages however, have very original material left in them. English, even with its many loans, doesn't even come close to this category. Low Saxon does.
There exist 2 varieties today. High German with a Low Saxon accent and Dutch with a Low Saxon accent.
A good example of how divided 'Low Saxon' is today. Wikipedia started with a single 'Low Saxon' project. It proved unworkable; and now there are two. One in *Dutch* Low Saxon, and one in *(High) German* Low Saxon.
http://nds.wikipedia.org/
http://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/
(^ ignore the facts if you like, they're still there though)
If you, *Travis* don't like that notion, then it's tough luck. You, and various others here, can continue your *wishful thinking*, but do not pose it as the truth. The reality: Low Saxon is dead, dying, and no longer 'Low Saxon'.
Nonsense. I agree there's no 'writing' standard, but there is a kinda speaking standard.
And about your 'old' people, well I'm 21 years old.
Low-saxon isn't dead. I even feel it gets more and more speakers because of Low-saxon spoken soaps and more news on regional channels in their own dialect/language.
My dialect is very different to Dutch and German, and it's a Low-saxon dialect.
It's not dead at all, I just spoke it with my friends in the pub.
Cheers,
Me
You spoke what you think is Low Saxon. It's not. It's Dutch with an accent (or German with an accent if you live in Germany) but you can believe what you want to believe.
Cheers indeed
Me
Low Saxon is not dead in Groningen area (The Neherlands),East Frisia,Bremen,Oldenburg area,Schleswig-Holstein (Germany).Maybe,it's dying in Twente area (The Netherlands),Hanover area,Mecklenburg area(Germany).
Maybe,we can say,that Saterland Frisian is dying language,but not Low Saxon.
<<You spoke what you think is Low Saxon. It's not. It's Dutch with an accent (or German with an accent if you live in Germany) but you can believe what you want to believe.
>>
What an asshole.
I would tell you to drop this forum and go be with your friends instead, but I know you don't have any.
And it's "Moribund" with a 'd', @sshole
Hehe, when I'm in school or shops I speak Dutch. At home I speak a Low Saxon dialect, and that's what I'm doing in the pub with friends as well.
ggg, I have the feeling you've never been in my area..
«Only a few old people speak "it", and by "it" I mean less 'contaminated' versions of the older, real, Low Saxon language. »
Hmm than the Dutch speakers nowadays don't speak Dutch as well? As the current Dutch language is different compared to what was spoken several hundreds of years ago.
«Hmm than the Dutch speakers nowadays don't speak Dutch as well? As the current Dutch language is different compared to what was spoken several hundreds of years ago.»
Dutch-speaker today speak a natural evolution of Dutch.
People who claim to speak 'Low Saxon' don't.
«Hehe, when I'm in school or shops I speak Dutch. At home I speak a Low Saxon dialect, and that's what I'm doing in the pub with friends as well.
ggg, I have the feeling you've never been in my area.»
I know exactly what 'your area' comprises of, and I also have a pretty good picture of you in my mind.
You're someone who thinks he's one of the few people who speak "Low Saxon", you go on the internet claiming that and feels very special because of this. In everyday life however you don't use it (eventhough online you claim everyone in your region does) not even in local shops. No, the only time you speak "it" is when you're together with drunk friends in a local bar; where you think it's "cool" to try and speak as "plat" as possible.
What you end up speaking? I wouldn't know what that is; but it sure as hell isn't either Dutch or German Low Saxon.
ggg, where exactly do you live in the Netherlands? I'm just curious.
<<I know exactly what 'your area' comprises of, and I also have a pretty good picture of you in my mind. >>
ggg, this is not what 12345 said...
12345 said he/she had a feeling you had never *been* to his/her area...
knowing what the area comprises and actually being there/having been there are two totally different things.
for all we know, you could be in Ecuador and have never left your own country
in which case you need to just-...well, nevermind
In any event, Standard Hoch Deutsch and standard Dutch are in part made of Low Saxon, there's no doubt there.
For instance, A German says "mein Bruder" and not "mein Pruder";
"Korn" instead of "Chorn", etc.
regardless of the future of Low German dialects, Low Saxon will survive in the veins of German and Dutch for as long as those languages live...
hahaha ... no dear boy. but dream on
Very good argumentation ggg.
I just wonder in what category you would put Gronings. Frisian is in fact derived from Low Saxon, (altho the Frisians don't want to hear that). But Gronings doesn't belong to Dutch you say. The only option is Low Saxon.
To be exact: Northern Low Saxon
Frisian is not derived from Low Saxon,it is derived from Middle Frisian(and it had derived from Old Frisian),such as Low Saxon derived from Middle Low Saxon ( it had derived from Old Saxon ).Old Saxon and Old Frisian was very closely related (Old Frankish too).Gronings is a part of Low Saxon (Nedersaksisch) dialects,heavily influenced by Standard Dutch.
Frisian is not only West Frisian language in Netherlands,other groups of Frisian dialects(or languages) are Saterland Frisian(in Germany) and North Frisian (in Germany and Denmark).
Low German is dead. It died after the fall of the Hanseatic League and mass education in German. Only a few old people speak "it", and by "it" I mean less 'contaminated' versions of the older, real, Low Saxon language.
Pure languages do not exist. Some languages however, have very original material left in them. English, even with its many loans, doesn't even come close to this category. Low Saxon does.
There exist 2 varieties today. High German with a Low Saxon accent and Dutch with a Low Saxon accent.
A good example of how divided 'Low Saxon' is today. Wikipedia started with a single 'Low Saxon' project. It proved unworkable; and now there are two. One in *Dutch* Low Saxon, and one in *(High) German* Low Saxon.
http://nds.wikipedia.org/
http://nds-nl.wikipedia.org/
(^ ignore the facts if you like, they're still there though)
If you, *Travis* don't like that notion, then it's tough luck. You, and various others here, can continue your *wishful thinking*, but do not pose it as the truth. The reality: Low Saxon is dead, dying, and no longer 'Low Saxon'.
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