I am an ex-pat and while arranging a future meeting with a departing ex-London guest last night she used the expression "half-ten". This led to a discussion on the meaning of the expression. I remember that, as a child, I used the expression to mean "half before ten" as in the German construction "halb vor zehn". I then began to wonder if there are regional differences in the UK in the meaning of this construction, or, as in many other things, has the meaning flipped over the decades from one meaning to another?
"Half ten" - nine-thirty or ten-thirty?
In British English, 'half ten' can only mean 10.30. I've never heard of any regional differences in construction, or meaning. In German they use 'halb zehn' to mean 9.30. We think of it as 'half past the hour' and they think 'half before the hour'. I think in Dutch it's the same as in German.
The expression "half ten" isn't part of my dialect. If I'm specifying time in relation to an hour (as opposed to giving it purely numerically, as in "ten-thirty"), I always use a construction with "past" or "to".
<<Yeah, I have a strong preference for the numerical form as well. >>
Me too, when talking to Germans! :-) Saves a lot of confusion (and possibly, waiting around for someone who left in disgust some time ago!)
Me too, when talking to Germans! :-) Saves a lot of confusion (and possibly, waiting around for someone who left in disgust some time ago!)
<<Me too, when talking to Germans! :-) Saves a lot of confusion (and possibly, waiting around for someone who left in disgust some time ago!)>>
Hehe. You can't beat the true numbers for their clarity :)
Hehe. You can't beat the true numbers for their clarity :)
Half-ten? I've never been up at half-ten! What's the procedure? What do we do?
When "Half-ten" is encountered in Australia, it invariably means "half past ten". As is general in English, the ten can either refer to 10.00 am or 10.00 pm (= 2200 hours). "Half-ten" is a construction more likely amongst people who watch British television, so I would hazard that it's a recent British import, rather than something that came across with the language.
When "Half-ten" is encountered in Australia, it invariably means "half past ten". As is general in English, the ten can either refer to 10.00 am or 10.00 pm (= 2200 hours). "Half-ten" is a construction more likely amongst people who watch British television, so I would hazard that it's a recent British import, rather than something that came across with the language.
I've always had the feeling that 'half ten' is an especially British construction, and rarely used elsewhere. Certainly my Canadian other half doesn't use it, and a few Americans have told me it 'sounds very British' to them.
Another question, to the Americans here: do you use the word 'fortnight', or is this not part of your dialect?
(Answers from other English speakers also welcome) :-)
Another question, to the Americans here: do you use the word 'fortnight', or is this not part of your dialect?
(Answers from other English speakers also welcome) :-)
Apropos of this, I'm just reminded from my rambly post on the meals thread that I also say /ko:tt@/ instead of "quarter to", so that something which sounds almost the same as "quarter one" actually means "quarter to one" ("quarter" is, of course, normally pronounced /ko:t@/=[ko:4@]). To my ears, the gemination-vs-tap distinction is less obvious than the aspirated-vs-voiced one, but I suspect I have some amount of non-phonemic gemination after short vowels in some circumstances, not unlike the Scandinavian rules, but nowhere near as rigorous or simple; thus the gemination might enter my "ignore box", as do for instance pre-consonantal/pausal /r/ in non-american rhotic speakers, pure distinctions of tension etc.
As for "fortnight", although I'm not an American, I will observe I use it. I also use expressions like "Wednesday week" and "Wednesday fortnight" to mean not this Wednesday, but the next one; and not next Wednesday, but the one after that, respectively. These are quite useful when talking about days too far ahead for "next" to be unambiguous. I believe Americans don't use them, but Brits do? I'm an Australian though, so I'm also not British.
As for "fortnight", although I'm not an American, I will observe I use it. I also use expressions like "Wednesday week" and "Wednesday fortnight" to mean not this Wednesday, but the next one; and not next Wednesday, but the one after that, respectively. These are quite useful when talking about days too far ahead for "next" to be unambiguous. I believe Americans don't use them, but Brits do? I'm an Australian though, so I'm also not British.
to the Americans here: do you use the word 'fortnight', or is this not part of your dialect?
I think 'fortnight' was last used in the US probably in Victorian times. I imagine it just passed out of common usage.
We don't say half-ten either. I've never even heard of that.
I think 'fortnight' was last used in the US probably in Victorian times. I imagine it just passed out of common usage.
We don't say half-ten either. I've never even heard of that.
Well I know a fortnight is two weeks. How? From books! Jane Austin comes to mind. I've read a few period romances too...
Terry and Tiffany:
Really?? It sounds so old-fashioned to you? That's very interesting! In British English, it's still a common word.
Really?? It sounds so old-fashioned to you? That's very interesting! In British English, it's still a common word.
I'm in the same boat as Tiffany: I only know the term 'fortnight' from classic literature.