Audio sample for shadow technique?

nick   Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:49 pm GMT
http://www.2shared.com/file/4536598/34735e1b/02_Preface.html
That's a sample from the audio book, The Anatomy of Peace, read by Oliver Wyman, who is a native New Yorker. I want to learn New York accent, please tell me if he is a good speaker by listening to the sample. Thank you very much.
ColinRolf   Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:59 pm GMT
Not enough New York influence, by far. His speech is closer to General American.
nick   Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:01 pm GMT
http://us.macmillan.com/author/oliverwyman right on this website, it says he is a native New Yorker. Maybe he changed his accent.
Jasper   Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:44 pm GMT
Nick, it's hard to say. I'm not an expert--merely a student--albeit one with a certain level of knowledge and a good set of ears, but Wyman's speech does not reflect what we Americans normally consider when we think of a New York accent.

A New York accent as we know it is better represented by people such as Judge Judy, Ed Koch, et. al.,. Their speech is characterized by the lack of the cot/caught merger, non-rhoticity, vowel-raising in certain circumstances, some nasalization, pronunciation of "th" as "t", etc. It has been suggested that these features of New York City speech are disappearing, but the jury's still out on that notion.

It's possible that Wyman is code-switching, anyway. You will probably want to get a consensus from fellow Antimooners on this issue before you reach a final conclusion.
Estel   Mon Dec 29, 2008 4:56 pm GMT
Well, I think he sounds pretty neutral and that's probably because he "is known for his extensive work as a reader of audiobooks." He's gotta sound pretty neutral because of his job.

He's an exceptional speaker, of course. It's his career to speak after all. But he's not a good model if you want to learn the typical New York accent. From the audio file, he lacks what a typical New Yorker would have as Jasper have stated.
Jasper   Mon Dec 29, 2008 7:14 pm GMT
Nick, if you live in New York City, perhaps you could avail yourself of the services of a native friend--one who speaks the dialect you wish to shadow.

Simply have him speak--about anything--for long enough to get a half an hour's worth of material; asking him about sex, religion, or politics--normally a taboo--will surely get the oratory juices flowing, if he's normally the reticent type.

Once you get the recording, shadow him, one sentence at a time, repeated endlessly until perfection is reached (10 or 15 times per sentence isn't too many times). The endeavor will take a great deal of time, so be patient with yourself.
nick   Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:25 pm GMT
Thank you, Jasper. I think this is your first time mention about the record a conversation with a friend, and shadow it. It's a great idea.
I will record my reading first, record the second one after 1 month, and then compare these two. I hope I will find out I improve, a little bit at least. Maybe I will post these two audio file, let you guys judge it.
Thank you everyone.
Jasper   Mon Dec 29, 2008 10:13 pm GMT
Nick, if you're not a native speaker of English, a month of work at an hour a day may not be enough. Remember, it took years to learn English; this endeavor will take a while, too. It's essential to remember that speech classes at a college allow a year for accent reduction/elimination.

The level of success you reach is directly proportional to the time you spend on it. Good luck to you. Please keep us posted on your progress.
¿¿¿   Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:40 am GMT
What is shadowing? I can't find anything with Google, yet all you guys are talking about it here all the time.
Jasper   Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:00 pm GMT
First of all, the term "shadowing" has become an umbrella term describing two very similar techniques that are different in application. The general theory is that a voice, spoken at the same time as a target speaker, begins to take on the characteristics of the target speaker. Shadowing can be used to correct an accent, or to improve voice quality, or breathing, or intonation, or even diction.

The usual application of shadowing involves speaking long passages along with a speaker. While this approach has some benefit, I am convinced that this technique is weak at best for complex reasons that are beyond the scope of this post.

One version of shadowing, pioneered by Professor Emeritus Leonard Newmark at the San Diego University, is a little bit more difficult to execute but far more effective, in my opinion. You take a 30-minute sample of speech from a speaker whom you'd like to emulate, break it down into sentences, and speak along with the speaker--one sentence at a time--until you're satisfied that your speech matches that of the speaker. It is only then that you move on to the next sentence.

I've had some limited experience with the technique. I once shadowed Peter Graves, whose voice I admired, for a short period of time. Since I speak with a mixed Southern/General American accent, my accent--compared to his--became painfully, embarrassingly obvious. Even the tiniest differences of speech became noticeable. (For example, I had no idea until then, that I pronounced the consonant "l" differently). I worked with the technique for a short time, and learned how to pronounce certain vowel combinations without an accent, then lost interest because the technique is boring, tedious, and grueling---not for the faint of heart. It takes real dedication to complete the endeavor.

If you have any other questions regarding the technique, please let me know.

On a related note, written prose can be shadowed with tremendous benefit for those with sufficient motivation to complete the endeavor.
guest2   Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:44 am GMT
I'm glad that someone mentioned Leonard Newmark, a former teacher of mine. (And it's University of California, San Diego, not San Diego University.) He was advocating "comprehensible input" long before Krashen. (Krashen lists him as an influence.)

If you want a detailed view of one type of shadowing, go to Alexander Arguelles website:

http://www.foreignlanguageexpertise.com/foreign_language_study.html

The video is a little goofy due to time and space constraints, but the description is detailed. He's one of the most successful polyglots, and shadowing is one of his main techniques. The whole site is interesting.
Jasper   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:53 pm GMT
"(And it's University of California, San Diego, not San Diego University."

I stand corrected. :-) Our memories do play tricks on us sometimes, don't they?

I wonder if you knew Suzette Elgin, who taught at the same university for a spell?
Jasper   Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:57 pm GMT
The interesting thing about that video is that it is the other method of shadowing mentioned before that is detailed. I'm convinced that it is less effective than Newmark's method; while admitting that this notion is my own opinion, it is one that is shared by others...
guest2   Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:07 pm GMT
Jasper,

I didn't know Suzette Elgin. People like Schane, Klima, Elman, and Perlmutter were there.

Leonard Newmark was great. His first talk on what was "necessary and sufficient" for language acquisition was eye-opening.

And thanks for bringing up his shadowing method on this thread.
Jasper   Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:25 pm GMT
Guest2, knowing Leonard Newmark is as impressive to me as knowing Albert Einstein might be for another student. Thank you for sharing.