Do people who have cot-caught merger distinguish the difference between ah and aw?
Do they have these two phonemes when they speak.
Do they have these two phonemes when they speak.
ah - aw
I don't distinguish between 'cot' and 'caught' however, but I do distinguish between 'ah' & 'aw'
'ah' is more of a pure a-sound, like in "father" /A/
where 'aw' is more open like in "law" /Q/
'ah' is more of a pure a-sound, like in "father" /A/
where 'aw' is more open like in "law" /Q/
people who don't distinguish between cot and caught are retarded. like, really.
In the West we make no pronunciation difference between "ah" and "aw". We pronounce cot and caught identically, for example. When midwesterners make a distinction between them, we do not hear the difference. (Although we can hear the difference in some east coast accents.) To us, "ah" and "aw" represent the same sound. We could transcribe cot as either "caht" or "cawt"; father as "fahther" or "fawther". We do use both vowels when we speak however. But they are completely interchangeable. If I said the word "cot" to a person that makes the distinction, they might either hear it as cot or caught. It might vary in the same sentence even. However this merger rarely causes confusion except for the names Don and Dawn.
Also I've noticed that most people don't notice or point out the merger to me. I've been. To the Midwest and nobody has thought that I had an accent at all--even when I remark about their accent. Because of the Northern cities vowel shift, most midwesterners sound rather accented to Westerners and Canadians.
"When midwesterners make a distinction between them, we do not hear the difference."
I notice the difference right away, but I am a Southern transplant who's lived in the West for nearly thirty years, so my hearing apparatus might be different from a native Westerner.
I notice the difference right away, but I am a Southern transplant who's lived in the West for nearly thirty years, so my hearing apparatus might be different from a native Westerner.
To tell the truth, the two sounds are so close anyway as to make no real difference. It's just an accent in my opinion.
It's not like one is pronouncing "coot" and "kite" or some sh*t like that. I mean really...
It's not like one is pronouncing "coot" and "kite" or some sh*t like that. I mean really...
@Jasper,
Yes, if you were a native Westerner you wouldn't hear the difference if a midwesterner with a conservative accent said the two words. You might be able to hear the difference if they had a very strong northern cities vowel shift, as cot would sound like "cat", and "caught" would sound like cot/caught. You also might be able to hear the difference in many east coast accents, as their caught vowel can sound almost like cohawt, or like in coe-aw-fee for "coffee".
Yes, if you were a native Westerner you wouldn't hear the difference if a midwesterner with a conservative accent said the two words. You might be able to hear the difference if they had a very strong northern cities vowel shift, as cot would sound like "cat", and "caught" would sound like cot/caught. You also might be able to hear the difference in many east coast accents, as their caught vowel can sound almost like cohawt, or like in coe-aw-fee for "coffee".
<<as their caught vowel can sound almost like cohawt, or like in coe-aw-fee for "coffee". >>
Yes, like those in NYC where it actually sounds a lot like they're saying "cort/co-ahrt", "corffee/co-arfee"
Yes, like those in NYC where it actually sounds a lot like they're saying "cort/co-ahrt", "corffee/co-arfee"
"When midwesterners make a distinction between them, we do not hear the difference."
The difference is more striking in sytagms, for example in Cot/Caught merged areas these expressions have the same vowel:
hot dog [hAtdAg in California, hAtdOg in NYC, h{tdAg or hatdQg in Chicago]
coffee shop [kAfiSAp in California, kOfiSAp in NYC, kQfiSap or kAfiS{p in Chicago]
small doll [smAl dAl (or smQl dQl by some) in California, smOl dAl in NYC]
The difference is more striking in sytagms, for example in Cot/Caught merged areas these expressions have the same vowel:
hot dog [hAtdAg in California, hAtdOg in NYC, h{tdAg or hatdQg in Chicago]
coffee shop [kAfiSAp in California, kOfiSAp in NYC, kQfiSap or kAfiS{p in Chicago]
small doll [smAl dAl (or smQl dQl by some) in California, smOl dAl in NYC]
As you can see, the way a person from the Great Lakes Area pronounces HOT DOG and COFFEE SHOP can sound like ''HAT DOG'' and ''COFFEE SHAP'' to a nonLaker ear (be it CCmerged [LA, Vermont, Arizona, NewFoundland] or CCunmerged [NYC, Maryland, Alabama]).
To be more specific, what about ah like "Ah! That's right"
and aw as in "Aw, that's cute!"
and aw as in "Aw, that's cute!"
@Kess,
But only people that have a strong northern cities vowel shift. If they have a fairly conservative accent, Westerners will not notice the difference at all betweeen them. We might even pronounce the words differently ourselves sometimes: Sometimes I pronounce "hot dog" as [hQt_} dAg].
@Curious,
I distinguish them only in spelling. In speech I can tell by context and tone of voice, but not by vowel quality. "Ah" vs. "Aw" was simply another spelling rule to learn. They both represented the same sound, along with "au" as in "audience", or "o" as in "tot", or "ou" as in "bought".
But only people that have a strong northern cities vowel shift. If they have a fairly conservative accent, Westerners will not notice the difference at all betweeen them. We might even pronounce the words differently ourselves sometimes: Sometimes I pronounce "hot dog" as [hQt_} dAg].
@Curious,
I distinguish them only in spelling. In speech I can tell by context and tone of voice, but not by vowel quality. "Ah" vs. "Aw" was simply another spelling rule to learn. They both represented the same sound, along with "au" as in "audience", or "o" as in "tot", or "ou" as in "bought".
@Kess,
But only people that have a strong northern cities vowel shift. If they have a fairly conservative accent, Westerners will not notice the difference at all betweeen them. We might even pronounce the words differently ourselves sometimes: Sometimes I pronounce "hot dog" as [hQt_} dAg].
@Curious,
I distinguish them only in spelling. In speech I can tell by context and tone of voice, but not by vowel quality. "Ah" vs. "Aw" was simply another spelling rule to learn. They both represented the same sound, along with "au" as in "audience", or "o" as in "tot", or "ou" as in "bought".
But only people that have a strong northern cities vowel shift. If they have a fairly conservative accent, Westerners will not notice the difference at all betweeen them. We might even pronounce the words differently ourselves sometimes: Sometimes I pronounce "hot dog" as [hQt_} dAg].
@Curious,
I distinguish them only in spelling. In speech I can tell by context and tone of voice, but not by vowel quality. "Ah" vs. "Aw" was simply another spelling rule to learn. They both represented the same sound, along with "au" as in "audience", or "o" as in "tot", or "ou" as in "bought".
''If they have a fairly conservative accent, Westerners will not notice the difference at all betweeen them.''
If the Midwestern is conservative, it will have rounded [Q] in dog, coffee which will make the vowel difference HOT DOG : COFFEE SHOP even sharper:
HOT [unrounded] DOG [rounded]
COFFEE [rounded] SHOP [unrounded]
If the Midwestern is conservative, it will have rounded [Q] in dog, coffee which will make the vowel difference HOT DOG : COFFEE SHOP even sharper:
HOT [unrounded] DOG [rounded]
COFFEE [rounded] SHOP [unrounded]