Why do Dutch and Scandinavians speak English so well?

There were three major factors that contributed to the widespread use of English throughout the world: commerce, entertainment, and globalization.

The United Kingdom—through aggressive trade, imperial policies, and robust economic drive—had long been a primary force behind financial markets. And by the end of the twentieth century, the United States had become an essential consideration in nearly every economic decision, regardless of the origin of a company.

Among all the other dramatic changes that took place in the twentieth century, one of the most important to consider was the increased significance of entertainment on the lives of ordinary humans. At the same time as average personal income and leisure time increased, the availability of cheap entertainment exploded. Innovations such as radio, television, film, and the internet gave anyone—everyone—access to entertainment.
Much of this entertainment was in English. In the early twentieth century, innovations in music began to take form—swing, jazz, the blues, and later, rock & roll—often in English, and carried by radio all across the world. If you wanted to sing along it helped to know the language. Meanwhile Hollywood spread its films across the world. And although the internet is available in every language, it has become yet another platform to spread the messages of English language entertainment culture. All of this has created a very effective kind of advertising (or if you prefer: propaganda) in the promotion of English as a lingua franca.


As globalization shrunk the world, other English-speaking nations gained ever-greater importance in the culture and commerce of Europe. Before, English was only represented by the United Kingdom and its 80 million inhabitants (which is about equal to that of France, less than German-speaking countries, and far less than the Russia in population). But globalization gave less priority to location, and as you look to the east and west of Europe, you see America and Canada on one side, and Australia on the other. English had Europe surrounded.

Yes, an all of those countries, especially the US, became extremely dominant in the world.

Yes, an all of those countries, especially the US, became extremely dominant in the world.

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No, China, India, Russia, Brazil, Mexico, Israel, Germany became extremely dominant. None of them are english speaking countries. Things change, it's life.

You're kidding, right? Except for Germany, which of those countries have spread their cultures throughout the world?

<<. Innovations such as radio, television, film, and the internet gave anyone—everyone—access to entertainment.
Much of this entertainment was in English. In the early twentieth century, innovations in music began to take form—swing, jazz, the blues, and later, rock & roll—often in English, and carried by radio all across the world. If you wanted to sing along it helped to know the language. Meanwhile Hollywood spread its films across the world. And although the internet is available in every language, it has become yet another platform to spread the messages of English language entertainment culture. All of this has created a very effective kind of advertising (or if you prefer: propaganda) in the promotion of English as a lingua franca.>>

Why should these things not be in English/ Why is it "propaganda" for the English language if most of these innovations and inventions (e.g. Jazz, blues, rock, the internet, etc) were created in English speaking nations or grew more quickly in those nations (e.g. film). I imagine if those things happened in China or Russia or Germany, it would be rather different story. And it is not like Spain and France didn't have colonies and economic interests around the world. Why is Spanish and French not as important on the world stage as English is today?

"A person who doesn't say "thank you" because it's implicit seems to hold a sense of entitlement"

I did not mean to say you should not say thank you in any situation at all. Thank you is good, thank you is the best thing in the world since sliced bread :-). Please keep saying thank you. Say thank you to your mother and father and whoever you see on the road. In fact when kids come out of their mother's womb in anglo-saxon countries first thing they do is to say thank you to their father and mother in that order :-).

In fact Americans took it to the next level and came up with a day to say thank you and called it thanksgiving day.

I like the whole idea of thanksgiving, we thank you for providing us food and shelter when we landed on shores of America from cold cloudy England and now we will start the work of finishing your race and usurping your land.

In lot of other cultures where people do not say thank you but they actually live "thank you" by not killing, conquering and usurping land of natives.

So which is better: Just saying thank you and then go on living the life of violence, usurping the land and destroying the culture of natives or actually living a life of "thank you".....

That's the most illogical rubbish I have ever heard in my life.

<<You're kidding, right? Except for Germany, which of those countries have spread their cultures throughout the world?>>

I will day China, at least in Europe, India and Russia culture.

<<In fact Americans took it to the next level and came up with a day to say thank you and called it thanksgiving day.

I like the whole idea of thanksgiving, we thank you for providing us food and shelter when we landed on shores of America from cold cloudy England and now we will start the work of finishing your race and usurping your land.

In lot of other cultures where people do not say thank you but they actually live "thank you" by not killing, conquering and usurping land of natives.

So which is better: Just saying thank you and then go on living the life of violence, usurping the land and destroying the culture of natives or actually living a life of "thank you"..... >>

Sociohistorically, what countries and peoples have lived this assumed "thank you" where they do not conquer or mistreat other tribes and peoples? Before the British conquered the Maiori, the Maiori were an incredibly warlike tribe. Before China conquered the "peaceful" people of Tibet, how did Tibet become such a large geographical area? Were the Swiss, before there was a Switzerland, always a neutral and peaceful people? And those Native Americans conquered by the English, Dutch, French, and Spanish, did they not also have their own Empires--the Aztecs, the Incas, the Iroquois? Did you know that while black slaves were being taken from Africa to work in the New World, Europeans were being taken as slaves to work in Africa?


"The Guardian: North African pirates abducted and enslaved more than 1 million Europeans between 1530 and 1780 in a series of raids which depopulated coastal towns from Sicily to Cornwall, according to new research.... Christian Slaves, Muslim Masters: White Slavery in the Mediterranean, the Barbary Coast, and Italy, 1500-1800, concluded that 1 million to 1.25 million ended up in bondage.... Almost all the inhabitants of the village of Baltimore, in Ireland, were captured in 1631, and there were other raids in Devon and Cornwall.... While Africans labored on sugar and cotton plantations the European slaves were put to work in quarries, building sites and galleys and endured malnutrition, disease and maltreatment."

War and conquest seem to be one of the universal characteristics of humanity. It is just that some aspects are popularized over others. American culture has popularized/highlighted such hypocrisies within itself and its history in order to overcome such problems. It has worked to some extent. The United States has moved from using African people as slaves to having one as president. There are many countries who have not made such a degree of progress. Perhaps you should look at "Guns, Germs, and Steal" . . . an interesting read.

>> I will day China, at least in Europe, India and Russia culture <<

Has China or Indian culture really taken over the world, to the same extent that British and American culture has? I've never actually seen a Chinese film that was actually produced in China by a Chinese company. And I've never seen an Indian movie in my whole life. Apparently, a country's economic strength does little to spread its culture. Although we have cultural influences from all over the world here in the US, I do not see Chinese culture having any more of an influence here than Korean or Japanese culture. And I've seen as many Pakistani influences here as Indian influences. Also, China's image here has not improved one iota in the last fifty years. It's still portrayed rather badly, as a country that is severely impoverished. I just don't know how people can say that any of those countries are dominating the world.

Russia conquered a sixth of the world. They've had more wars than any other country. It is the only remaining 'true' Empire.

Since it's a republic, it's not really an empire anymore.

Those of us in this Forum wo are living in Europe at least agree that the Dutch really are good speakers of English for the most part....as I've banged on about several times at regular intervals.....I can't help it as I really like the Netherlands and the Dutch people - for the most part. It seems that they sing well in English, too - even in songs with a difficult lyric such as one from the Julian Slade musical "Salad Days" - about student life in an English university: "We're looking for a piano.....a piano?.....yes a piano, not any old piano, the one that makes you dance....." and so on......

Every UK university has a Drama/Theatrical/Musical Society (I belonged to the very flourishing and active one at Leeds uni) and even though it's now 55 years since Julian Slade first produced "Salad Days" and its subsequent run of over 2,400 performances in London's West End from August 1954, it is still a regular favourite with many UK uni musical societies. It's all about the carefree life at uni before we all went out into the cruel world of the serious stuff......the "Salad Days" of youth. Actually it was Queen Cleopatra who is credited with it's first use, to Mark Antony - who else......refering to the "greenness" of youth (that was her opinion!) hence the salad connection.

Here is a YT clip featuring a group from Arnhem, in the Netherlands, singing, in English of course, "We're Looking for a Piano" - which, if it has to be done absolutely correctly, HAS to be sung at quite a rate of knots. Looking at many of these singers I doubt that they are actually students, and some could well benefit from confining their dietary intake to salads...now tell me that I'm mean!

Anyway, although quite noticeably accented much of the time, the English is pretty good, and as I say, the lyric really is quite tricky a lot of the time, and MUST be sung at a fast pace to make the whole thing effective.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaJ-W4vqY5g

What does an American accent sound like to you when sung?

Earlier, I couldn't help but wonder why everyone was being so hateful to the Dutch?
From the Dutch people I have met, I will agree that they can be outspoken- but it's just part of their culture. I'm an American- we can be annoyingly outspoken!
Not all of the Dutch speak English- there are many who can't! Especially older people- and no, I'm not going off of my personal experiences. I have a friend who lives in the Netherlands and married a Dutch man and her in-laws don't know any English!
And when Dutch people do speak English, of course it isn't perfect. I am from Texas and my hometown has many Dutch dairy men and their accents are extremely noticable. If I was to name a foreigner whom I've met with a flawless accent, it was actually a Dane! I could not believe he wasn't born and raised in America!
And I had to nag that guy into speaking any Danish- he said he felt there was little use for it outside of Denmark. But he warmed to me when I said that keeping the language alive is about the importance of culture. And it is. :-)
And not all English speakers think that everyone has to speak our language to us in their country! As a matter of fact, nothing gets me more riled than all the Spanish speakers in my community who live in America and REFUSE to learn English! If I went to a Spanish speaking country I would learn the language- and as it is, that's all that's taught in my town! My Spanish teacher told me once that it was the only option because it's "the only language you'll need to know". That's arrogance!
Expecting me to cater to lazy immigrants isn't right. Expecting me to travel no further in life than South America isn't right.
At the same time, I am trying to study French but I know I am butchering the language... not to mention I can't help but want to say it with a Spanish accent.
Back to the topic: as a native English speaker, mind you, I think that Scandinavians can speak the language so we say things so simliar. No, not everything is the same... but the sound. There is a similiarity. Frisian sounds the closest to English to my ear though. And it's my guess that that's why.