Do you think Scots is a different language? When I first saw it I laughed at the thought of it being considered a different language because it was so easy to understand, but then I put myself in the shoes of a Spanish speaker for example, because that must be more or less the same as what Portuguese, Catalan or Galician look like for them. So is it that Scots is a different dialect of the same language, or is it just that native English speakers are unaccustomed to seeing another mutually intellectual language and hence they automatically think it is a dialect, when it is actually another language?
Is Scots English?
If you can class Norwegian/Swedish and Czech/Slovakian as separate languages then you could certainly make a case for Scots being different from English. I presume you mean auld Scots rather than Scottish English which is widely spoken today.
Scots is just a dialect for English - but a difference being is that the Scots are the only Engish-speaking people I know who often write sentences in the way they say them in their dialect, rather than in the way they shuld actually be spelt.
So they might write "on ma heed" instead of "on my head."
Many Scots write whole paragraphs by writing words they pronounce them in their own dialect. One reason you can tell that Scots is only a dialect is because the spelling of many words differs depending on whoever is writing them.
So they might write "on ma heed" instead of "on my head."
Many Scots write whole paragraphs by writing words they pronounce them in their own dialect. One reason you can tell that Scots is only a dialect is because the spelling of many words differs depending on whoever is writing them.
Based on the fact that Scots has a different grammar and different morphology from English (i.e. Northern Subject rule, verbal endings inherited from Old Norse, etc.) which can be traced back through Middle English to Northern dialects of Old English, I would say Scots is disctinct enough from English, and has been for a long enough time in its history, to qualify it as a different language.
Much of the core vocabulary is also different enough, showing greater influence and admixture from Old Norse.
Much of the core vocabulary is also different enough, showing greater influence and admixture from Old Norse.
<,When I first saw it I laughed at the thought of it being considered a different language because it was so easy to understand>>
Is spoken Scots easy for most people in England to understand?
A few months ago, there was a link to a Youtube video with someone speaking in a heavy Scots accent, and it was pretty much intelligible to most of the posters on that thread. I'm in the US, and could understand at most a couple of phrases in the whole video.
Is spoken Scots easy for most people in England to understand?
A few months ago, there was a link to a Youtube video with someone speaking in a heavy Scots accent, and it was pretty much intelligible to most of the posters on that thread. I'm in the US, and could understand at most a couple of phrases in the whole video.
Ditto CID, and I would add that I don't think most English speakers find Scots intelligible.
The main thing here is that while it is similar to English, it is no less similar than many of the 'languages' we often take for granted to be different (Swedish/Norwegian, Galician/Portuguese etc). I think as native English speakers since there aren't a lot of mutually intelligible language it seems quite odd that something so similar can be considered a different language. So, whether or not it is a dialect or not, it seems our definitions are not entirely consistent, at least as understood in everyday language.
The following link (with its various pages) will give you all the information your require on the history and development of the Scots "Language" and it's status back home in present day Scotland.
I come from the most "Anglicised" area of Scotland but even there Scots is still used quite widely by many people who may legitimately be described as "bilingual". I for one use it to my own personal advantage, and now that I am down here in London I am determined to have fun, at appropriate times in in appropriate circumstances, with all the Sassenachs down here as well as all those of other nationalities of which there are many. I will fly the "Scots Flag" - as shown in this link.
Gaelic was the original tongue of what is now Scotland, but Scots developed out of Old English, with strong Norse influences playing an significant part in all this.
Scots really is totally incomprehensible to most English people, thankfully. The Welsh have similar fun with their clearly defined Language - which differs greatly from English in so many ways.
http://www.scotsindependent.org/features/scots/intro.htm
I come from the most "Anglicised" area of Scotland but even there Scots is still used quite widely by many people who may legitimately be described as "bilingual". I for one use it to my own personal advantage, and now that I am down here in London I am determined to have fun, at appropriate times in in appropriate circumstances, with all the Sassenachs down here as well as all those of other nationalities of which there are many. I will fly the "Scots Flag" - as shown in this link.
Gaelic was the original tongue of what is now Scotland, but Scots developed out of Old English, with strong Norse influences playing an significant part in all this.
Scots really is totally incomprehensible to most English people, thankfully. The Welsh have similar fun with their clearly defined Language - which differs greatly from English in so many ways.
http://www.scotsindependent.org/features/scots/intro.htm
The problem with 'Scots' as a language, is that people from different parts of Scotland cannot understand each other.
In other parts of the British Isles, there are stong regional accents and dialects. However these are normally spoken by people, low down on the social scale. In Scotland, these regional accents and dialects, extend further up the social scale.
There is another problem: Scottish children and adults will not be taught. Consequently it is not uncommon for an illiterate Scottish person to insist that they are speaking and writing in some obscure Scottish dialect, known only to themselves.
There is aslo a political dimension. The Scottish National Party (SNP) is the governing party in the Scottish parliament - a recent gift from Westminster. Several town halls and county councils are also dominated by the SNP. So, the 'Scots language' receives a lot of support and encouragement from all political parties in Scotland who are aware of the votes available.
I am sure that I said some where else, the area where people speak the best English in Scotland is not Edinburgh but around Inverness.
Bye for now
In other parts of the British Isles, there are stong regional accents and dialects. However these are normally spoken by people, low down on the social scale. In Scotland, these regional accents and dialects, extend further up the social scale.
There is another problem: Scottish children and adults will not be taught. Consequently it is not uncommon for an illiterate Scottish person to insist that they are speaking and writing in some obscure Scottish dialect, known only to themselves.
There is aslo a political dimension. The Scottish National Party (SNP) is the governing party in the Scottish parliament - a recent gift from Westminster. Several town halls and county councils are also dominated by the SNP. So, the 'Scots language' receives a lot of support and encouragement from all political parties in Scotland who are aware of the votes available.
I am sure that I said some where else, the area where people speak the best English in Scotland is not Edinburgh but around Inverness.
Bye for now
<<The problem with 'Scots' as a language, is that people from different parts of Scotland cannot understand each other.
>>
But is this not one of the many qualifiers of a language--that it be a group of dialects.
If people from one dialect cannot understand people from another, perhaps it's "Scots LanguageS" we should be discussing here.
>>
But is this not one of the many qualifiers of a language--that it be a group of dialects.
If people from one dialect cannot understand people from another, perhaps it's "Scots LanguageS" we should be discussing here.
It's a different language in my opinion. However I'm not really from Scotland, rather Gaysachusetts, so perhaps my opinion doesn't count all that much.
Scots is NOT mutually intelligible.
I remember watching the 2002 Ken Loch movie "Sweet Sixteen" (subtitled), and wondering what language they were speaking, completely oblivious to what it was. I was astounded to find out that they were essentially speaking English.
Its probably the only movie in an English language setting that was released with English subtitles (which were more than necessary). The dialect was completely impenetrable to my American ears, and what they were saying didn't even begin to resemble what was subtitled, so its beyond just being a simple different accent.
I remember watching the 2002 Ken Loch movie "Sweet Sixteen" (subtitled), and wondering what language they were speaking, completely oblivious to what it was. I was astounded to find out that they were essentially speaking English.
Its probably the only movie in an English language setting that was released with English subtitles (which were more than necessary). The dialect was completely impenetrable to my American ears, and what they were saying didn't even begin to resemble what was subtitled, so its beyond just being a simple different accent.
Well.....the whole purpose of us Scots having our "ain leid"* is to confuse and baffle and obfuscate issues. Surely you wouldn't deny us that privilege for heaven's sake? Something at least has got to distinguish us from the rest of the English speaking worrrrrrld, and anyway, you guys are making it out to be far more of a problem than it really is - stay around us long enough and you'll be fully conversant in *our own Language yourselves given enough time.
Like most dialects of English they are used mostly within each local area among all the natives of that area - "localspeak" you might say, an identifiable badge of local honour and regional/national pride among themselves. That was certainly the case in the Ken Loach film "Sweet Sixteen", set around the Strathclyde area of Scotland, whereas "Trainspotting" was set in my home city of Edinburgh, although mostly, and inexplicably, filmed around the Glasgow area, with one on scene shot on Princes Street, Edinburgh.
Most Scots speakers could, if they wanted to, revert to nigh on pairrrrrfict (ie perfect) EERP - of a fashion. Our own fellow Scot Robert Carlyle (aka Hamish Macbeth) is a genius at accentual linguistic switchovers, as are most trained Scottish actors (that word covering both genders).
I'm reasonably adept myself at falling in with all the Londonspeak Estuaryised or the "posher" suburban RP Home Counties cum Londonspeak English English now and again when I feel like a wee bit of pisstaking action. It's good for the soul. Very, very few of the guys I meet down here at work in Canary Wharf can come anywhere near an acceptably authentic Scottish accent, and those that do have probably got relatives living in Kilmarnock or Cowdenbeath or some such locality.
I know the dialogue is brief in these "Sweet Sixteen" clips but what is there about the speech you don't understand?
Are you sure "Trainspotting" wasn't also subtitled for showing to American audiences?
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi4019454233/
It's a public holiday (aka a Bank Holiday) here in England today but as a Scot I was hauled in to work at the office as Easter Monday is not a holiday in Scotland.
Like most dialects of English they are used mostly within each local area among all the natives of that area - "localspeak" you might say, an identifiable badge of local honour and regional/national pride among themselves. That was certainly the case in the Ken Loach film "Sweet Sixteen", set around the Strathclyde area of Scotland, whereas "Trainspotting" was set in my home city of Edinburgh, although mostly, and inexplicably, filmed around the Glasgow area, with one on scene shot on Princes Street, Edinburgh.
Most Scots speakers could, if they wanted to, revert to nigh on pairrrrrfict (ie perfect) EERP - of a fashion. Our own fellow Scot Robert Carlyle (aka Hamish Macbeth) is a genius at accentual linguistic switchovers, as are most trained Scottish actors (that word covering both genders).
I'm reasonably adept myself at falling in with all the Londonspeak Estuaryised or the "posher" suburban RP Home Counties cum Londonspeak English English now and again when I feel like a wee bit of pisstaking action. It's good for the soul. Very, very few of the guys I meet down here at work in Canary Wharf can come anywhere near an acceptably authentic Scottish accent, and those that do have probably got relatives living in Kilmarnock or Cowdenbeath or some such locality.
I know the dialogue is brief in these "Sweet Sixteen" clips but what is there about the speech you don't understand?
Are you sure "Trainspotting" wasn't also subtitled for showing to American audiences?
http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi4019454233/
It's a public holiday (aka a Bank Holiday) here in England today but as a Scot I was hauled in to work at the office as Easter Monday is not a holiday in Scotland.