What's your opinion of this speaker's usage?
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, her parents bought her Porshe for her birthday."
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, her parents bought her Porshe for her birthday."
Opinions of speaker usage
Gramatically, the only real mistake I see is that it should be "bought her _a_ Porsche".
Stylistically, this looks like bad writing, but perfectly normal speech. It is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to hear amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting.
Stylistically, this looks like bad writing, but perfectly normal speech. It is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to hear amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting.
As for me, I can make neither head nor tail of that sentence, even if I heard it amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting.
Grammar and style aside, the sentence is a logical nightmare. Let Wendy be the original "her" encountered in the sentence. Here are the possibilities:
1. Wehdy's friend's girlfriend's parents bought Wendy's friend's girlfriend a Porsche for her birthday.
2. Wendy's friend's girlfriend's parents bought Wendy a Porsche for her birthday.
3. Wendy's friend, the friend's girlfriend and the friend's girlfriend's parents pooled money together to buy Wendy a Porsche for her birthday.
Most people would probably go for option 1, but that needn't be the true meaning. Just slipping "and" into the sentence makes option 3 a lot more likely:
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend AND her parents bought her [a] Porsche for her birthday."
Grammar and style aside, the sentence is a logical nightmare. Let Wendy be the original "her" encountered in the sentence. Here are the possibilities:
1. Wehdy's friend's girlfriend's parents bought Wendy's friend's girlfriend a Porsche for her birthday.
2. Wendy's friend's girlfriend's parents bought Wendy a Porsche for her birthday.
3. Wendy's friend, the friend's girlfriend and the friend's girlfriend's parents pooled money together to buy Wendy a Porsche for her birthday.
Most people would probably go for option 1, but that needn't be the true meaning. Just slipping "and" into the sentence makes option 3 a lot more likely:
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend AND her parents bought her [a] Porsche for her birthday."
I took it as the speaker saying that girl A, who is known to the listeners, has a friend (girl B) who lives in Chester. Girl B is dating Guy C, who is also known to the listeners. Girl B received a Porsche from her parents for her birthday.
And when I say these people are "known" to the listeners, I just mean that their identity has been established earlier in the conversation.
Maybe I have weird friends, but I hear this kind of convoluted sentence all the time in conversation. "I've got this friend, Bob. He was dating this girl one time who had a friend whose parents bought her a pony when she was a kid." Nothing unusual about that.
And when I say these people are "known" to the listeners, I just mean that their identity has been established earlier in the conversation.
Maybe I have weird friends, but I hear this kind of convoluted sentence all the time in conversation. "I've got this friend, Bob. He was dating this girl one time who had a friend whose parents bought her a pony when she was a kid." Nothing unusual about that.
<<"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, her parents bought her Porshe for her birthday." >>
I would say:
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, [and] her parents bought her [a] Porshe for her birthday."
I would say:
"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, [and] her parents bought her [a] Porshe for her birthday."
<<"Her friend in Chester, his girlfriend, her parents bought her Porshe for her birthday." >>
"her" is correct here. It refers to "her Porshe", she already owns it and the speaker has the specific car in mind.
You could even say "he bought her her Porshe for her birthday".
"her" is correct here. It refers to "her Porshe", she already owns it and the speaker has the specific car in mind.
You could even say "he bought her her Porshe for her birthday".
<<Grammar and style aside, the sentence is a logical nightmare. >>
I think it's easily understood by those who are used to dealing with spoken English? I had no problem with it.
I think it's easily understood by those who are used to dealing with spoken English? I had no problem with it.
<Maybe I have weird friends, but I hear this kind of convoluted sentence all the time in conversation.>
This is the original:
"His cousin in Hampshire, her boyfriend, his parents bought him a car for his birthday."
Would you expect that speaker to be an educated speaker, i.e. a quality-speaker, of English?
This is the original:
"His cousin in Hampshire, her boyfriend, his parents bought him a car for his birthday."
Would you expect that speaker to be an educated speaker, i.e. a quality-speaker, of English?
<<It is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to hear amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting. >>
But that type of English usage isn't much found in English as a Second or Other Language (ESOL) classrooms, is it?
But that type of English usage isn't much found in English as a Second or Other Language (ESOL) classrooms, is it?
<Gramatically, the only real mistake I see is that it should be "bought her _a_ Porsche". >
No problem there. "Her Porsche" is possessive.
No problem there. "Her Porsche" is possessive.
<<As for me, I can make neither head nor tail of that sentence, even if I heard it amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting. >>
But what's your English learning background?
But what's your English learning background?
<<But what's your English learning background?>>
Well, I consider myself to be a essentially a native speaker of English. I was educated in international, British and American schools where English was the universal medium of communication, even between friends. It's not for me to judge my own abilities in English, but you can see a sample of my writing in the "BrE or AmE in your country" thread.
<<It is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to hear amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting.>>
Of course I'd hear that sort of thing from time to time. Given the context, I'd probably understand the meaning too. However, I'm a fan of clarity and precision. I'm not a grammar freak, but as a scientist, I value precision above all else.
Hence, whilst the example sentence might be common in colloquial English, it's certainly not to be encouraged, in my opinion. (And feigning an inability to understand is one means of forcing someone to elucidate =p)
Well, I consider myself to be a essentially a native speaker of English. I was educated in international, British and American schools where English was the universal medium of communication, even between friends. It's not for me to judge my own abilities in English, but you can see a sample of my writing in the "BrE or AmE in your country" thread.
<<It is exactly the kind of thing I would expect to hear amongst friends sitting around chit-chatting.>>
Of course I'd hear that sort of thing from time to time. Given the context, I'd probably understand the meaning too. However, I'm a fan of clarity and precision. I'm not a grammar freak, but as a scientist, I value precision above all else.
Hence, whilst the example sentence might be common in colloquial English, it's certainly not to be encouraged, in my opinion. (And feigning an inability to understand is one means of forcing someone to elucidate =p)
I speak like that all the time, I don't see what the deal is. It looks messy in writing but if someone said it to you you would understand, and anything more 'clear and precise' could sound stilted or pretentious. And I am a scientist too but precision and clarity can stay in the lab thanks.
Haha, I do not claim to be a master at precision or clarity. Far from it =p
Just a week ago, I was belaboured by my professors for using the word "significant" improperly. I used it in the colloquial sense, as a synonym for "substantial": "cytokine production was significantly increased"... and was promptly rounded on because the paper I was citing did not demonstrate *statistical* significance! When I explained my usage, I was told that "significant" must not be used casually and that I should have substituted another word such as "substantial", "considerable" or "marked".
Well, now you know where I'm coming from...
Just a week ago, I was belaboured by my professors for using the word "significant" improperly. I used it in the colloquial sense, as a synonym for "substantial": "cytokine production was significantly increased"... and was promptly rounded on because the paper I was citing did not demonstrate *statistical* significance! When I explained my usage, I was told that "significant" must not be used casually and that I should have substituted another word such as "substantial", "considerable" or "marked".
Well, now you know where I'm coming from...
<<I don't see what the deal is. It looks messy in writing but if someone said it to you you would understand, and anything more 'clear and precise' could sound stilted or pretentious. And I am a scientist too but precision and clarity can stay in the lab thanks.>>
Good point there. But MollyB was asking for our *opinions*, so I expressed mine. I suppose I'm entitled to do so? =p
Good point there. But MollyB was asking for our *opinions*, so I expressed mine. I suppose I'm entitled to do so? =p