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Satem language vs Centum language?
Which of the following Indo European languages are Satem languages and which of them are Centum languages?
Armenian Albanian Germanic Hellenic Baltic I'm pretty positive that Romance and Celtic are Centum while Slavic and Indo-Iranian are Satem.
Hellenic are Centum, Baltic are Satem... I think Armenian and Albanian are Satem as well...
Germanic is a little more complicated... It's almost always grouped with the Centum languages, though there's a smaller number of linguists that think this is because Germanic is simply "non-Satem" than Centum.
<<Germanic is a little more complicated... It's almost always grouped with the Centum languages, though there's a smaller number of linguists that think this is because Germanic is simply "non-Satem" than Centum. >>
Yes, based on the roots for Germanic *hwai ("who") and *hunth ("hundred"). Germanic languages are an enigma, because they show both Satem and Centum tendencies (i.e. Germanic consonants that do not fit the usual pattern of shift from IE: OE lacu, OGH lacha "lake" alongside OE lagu "lake, sea", OE sucan & sugan "suck"; Germanic *up "up, out" where it should be *uf, etc.). Some attribute this to contact with purely Satem languages like Baltic/Slavic. <<What are the differences between both groups? >> Mainly, the difference between the development of PIE variants of *k (labiovelars, velars, and palatovelars).
<<What are the differences between both groups?>>
Simply, they are divided by how they say the number 100 in their languages - whether it is closer to Satem or Centum. For further information, you may want to check this article below: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum-Satem_isogloss
Satem or Centum?
German -Hundert West Frisian -Hûndert English -Hundred Dutch -Honderd Swedish -Hundrade Danish -Hundrede Norwegian -Hundre Luxemburgish -Honnert
In terms of referring to the number 100, Germanic languages are tricky to classify. Germanic languages are generally classified as Centum but it's probably because they are non-Satem.
<<Satem or Centum?
German -Hundert West Frisian -Hûndert English -Hundred Dutch -Honderd Swedish -Hundrade Danish -Hundrede Norwegian -Hundre Luxemburgish -Honnert >> Clearly, based only on the information above, Germanic is Centum. Here's why: In Common Proto Germanic, the initial H- we see above was a guttural H / X\ / , which developed from the same 'k' sound in "centum". So Germanic here represents a Centum that has later modified the sound, no different than the way most Romance languages today that have turned Latin front c (orig a "k" sound) into a silibant (c > "ch" sound > "tz" sound > s)
"Latin front c (orig a "k" sound)"
Are you sure? I believe we don't know what the sound was.
<<"Latin front c (orig a "k" sound)"
Are you sure? I believe we don't know what the sound was. >> I meant 'c' before a front vowel, sorry. Well, there is no indication why the Romans would use the same initial bookstaff for 'centum' that they used for 'canis' were the two sounds not selfsame. Later in time, undoubtedly, this 'c' before front vowel was palatized to a 'ch' sound like we still hear in Italian, but I have no doubt in Old Latin and much of Classical Latin it was largely a "k". Interchange with 'g' also seems to support this.
<<no different than the way most Romance languages today >>
also, george, the hard "k" sound was preserved in some Italic dialects, like Sardninian (eg. 'kentu' = centum, hundred; dèke = decem, ten; etc), so this gives us a clue as to how the original letter was outspoken. the development of hard 'c' to "ch" to "tz" to "s" is paralleled with other hard consonants like 'g' ('g' > "j" sound > "zh" sound, etc) |