Do you pronounce "I scream" and "ice cream" the same? I don't. The "k" sound is aspirated in the latter, but not the former.
I scream, you scream, we all scream for ice cream.
I don't either.
After saying a long "I", I pause slightly before saying "scream".
The "I" in "ice" is attached to "ce", so I say it as the one syllable word with a "curt 'I'" that it is.
After saying a long "I", I pause slightly before saying "scream".
The "I" in "ice" is attached to "ce", so I say it as the one syllable word with a "curt 'I'" that it is.
cr - I'm not sure what you mean by "Canadian raising". Do you mean being raised as a Canadian or are you describing the sound of letters?
Canadian raising refers to raising of the "I" sound and sometimes the "ow" sound before certain consonants like s, p, t, k, th, f. So words like "rider" and "writer" are actually pronounced differently--not by the t/d, as that is of course pronounced the same, but rather by the vowel sound. This is found mostly in North America, particularily in Canada and many of the northern and northwestern states.
From these pages
http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_045_ice.htm
http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_044_I.htm
it looks like the number that pronouce them identically would be small, though of those that don't, some are closer to it than others.
http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_045_ice.htm
http://www.ling.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_044_I.htm
it looks like the number that pronouce them identically would be small, though of those that don't, some are closer to it than others.
Thanks for your explanation, cr. I have to say that I don't know anyone (Canadians anyway) who pronounce the d and t the same way for both words. I pronounce 'd' in rider and 't' in "writer" - as I was taught.
My dictionary shows the difference as well:
rIdu(r) for rider
rItu(r) for writer
My dictionary shows the difference as well:
rIdu(r) for rider
rItu(r) for writer
All North American dialects of English have an alveolar flap sound for both d and t in the middle of words, except in careful or overemphasized speech. For example, I'm sure you don't pronounce ladder and latter differently, unless there is a special need to distinguish them ("I meant the "laTTer" not the ladder.) It is the same for writer/rider. It's the "I" sound that's different and not the d/t.
>> It's the "I" sound that MAY be different <<
Indeed, if you live in Canada or northern or northwestern US. Perhaps in some Scottish and Irish dialects as well.
Indeed, if you live in Canada or northern or northwestern US. Perhaps in some Scottish and Irish dialects as well.
I certainly distinguish between rider/writer, latter/ladder, and wading/waiting, and find it off-putting when others don't.
Yes I do pronounce "ladder" and "latter" differently including for words like the above mentioned wading/waiting.
But I agree that the "I" sound is different in writer/rider (as with I scream/ice cream).
But I agree that the "I" sound is different in writer/rider (as with I scream/ice cream).