It is probably an awkward mix, but I have [Q] for both HONG and KONG. In fact, all vowels before -ng and non-silent l have [Q]. In words where the l is silent (ex. CALM, PALM, BALM), the vowel is shifted down to [a].
TomOHrrow or TomAHrrow
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I forgot to add that in certain words where the L is not pronounced (ex. TALK, WALK, CHALK, and BALK), the vowel is almost always [Q].
I have a CALLER-COLLAR merger, but COT-CAUGHT, HOCK-HAWK, and DON-DAWN are all unmerged.
CALLER-COLLAR has [Q].
COT, HOCK, and DON have [a].
CAUGHT, HAWK, and DAWN have [Q].
I have a CALLER-COLLAR merger, but COT-CAUGHT, HOCK-HAWK, and DON-DAWN are all unmerged.
CALLER-COLLAR has [Q].
COT, HOCK, and DON have [a].
CAUGHT, HAWK, and DAWN have [Q].
You have [a] and [Q] rather than [A] and [Q], or [a] and [A]? So you make a huge distinction between them. Interesting.
I am sure there are instances where [Q] shifts to [A], but I have yet to sit down and analyze it. I would imagine it is more likely to occur in the CLOTH set rather than the THOUGHT set, and never before the dark L.
GONE and ON both have [a], but I can see where HONG KONG could easily shift between [Q] and [A]. Words such as WASH are often grouped into the CLOTH set, but several of these have [a] instead of [Q] or [A]. Unlike many unmerged speakers, BALL and DOLL always use the same vowel [Q].
GONE and ON both have [a], but I can see where HONG KONG could easily shift between [Q] and [A]. Words such as WASH are often grouped into the CLOTH set, but several of these have [a] instead of [Q] or [A]. Unlike many unmerged speakers, BALL and DOLL always use the same vowel [Q].
So your [bQl] (ball) sounds like my [bQl] (bowl)...
Superbowl [su:p@rbQl]...
(I have /A/ in ball)
So, there are several [bQl]s according to region/person:
[bQl] bowl
[bQl] bull
[bQl] ball
Superbowl [su:p@rbQl]...
(I have /A/ in ball)
So, there are several [bQl]s according to region/person:
[bQl] bowl
[bQl] bull
[bQl] ball
Very interesting. My pronunciation of BALL [bQl] is very different from my pronunciation of BOWL [bo:l].
Someone mentioned that some people with the cot-caught-merger who normally use [A] for the merged vowel use [Q] before [5] and [N]. I was wondering if they also use [Q] before [g] and [k] since they're also velar consonants, just like [5] and [N].
As for the ball/bowl thing: I don't think I've ever heard someone pronounce /oUl/ as [Q5]. [O5] however seems to be a pretty common realization. Not only for /oUl/ but also for /Vl/ and /Ul/ as it seems:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081030135837AAWl4hT
As for the ball/bowl thing: I don't think I've ever heard someone pronounce /oUl/ as [Q5]. [O5] however seems to be a pretty common realization. Not only for /oUl/ but also for /Vl/ and /Ul/ as it seems:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081030135837AAWl4hT
Someone mentioned that some people with the cot-caught-merger who normally use [A] for the merged vowel use [Q] before [5] and [N] ''
//
what is [N] is it -ŋ? I guess c/c merger has nothing to do with it...
See why:
The preferred -Ong vowel ''Song, Long, Wrong, Hong Kong'' in Western US and in Atlantic Canada ' is [ɑ:], /Q/ is occasionally heard tho' in Northern California, Oregon and Washington.
/ɑ/ in ''Song, Long, Wrong'' and [a] in ''Hong Kong'' is common in the Great Lakes Area.
/ɑ/ in ''Song, Long, Wrong, Hong Kong'' is frequent in the South as well, even in the c/c unmerged areas.
Even dictionaries that don't list the c/c/merged pronunciations (American Heritage Dict. for example), give the alternative -O(ng) pronunciations:
song [so:ŋ, sɑ:ŋ]
long [lo:ŋ), lɑ:ŋ]...
In Western and Central Canada (from Vancouver to Toronto) [Q] is preferred, but many people have [ɑ], they're interchangeable.
In St. John's (NewFoundland), the merged c/c vowel is in the central area [ä], and ''song, long, wrong, Hong Kong'' vowel is never fully back and rounded, it's less central than in the cot/caught vowel but they're not fully back and rounded (cot/caught [kä:t], doll/call [dɑ:l/kɑ:l], Hong Kong / wrong song [hɑ:ŋ kɑ:ŋ /wrɑ:ŋ sɑ:ŋ]...Here is a small sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKPlsQuTjg
you can preview various dialectal pronunciations of some words here:
ALL
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_001_all.htm
LONG
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_052_long.htm
DAUGHTER
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_013_daughter.htm
Some traditional Scottish, Irish and/or Northern English accents have unrounded vowel /ɑ/ in ''all, long''...So, one could presume the unrounded pronunciation is the older one (compare with ALLES, LANG in German, these words have the unrounded vowel [ɑ]).
LONG [lɑ:ŋ, wrɑ:ŋ, sɑ:ŋ] in MW Learner's Dic:
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/long
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/wrong
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/song
SONG ([sɑ:ŋ]) in Hollywood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Z6Qg5XErA
Unrounded /ɑ/'s in a famous song: ''call, fall, long'' [kɑ:l, fɑ:l, lɑ:ŋ] California's Martika hit: Toy Soldiers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eAzL6qsL4
//
what is [N] is it -ŋ? I guess c/c merger has nothing to do with it...
See why:
The preferred -Ong vowel ''Song, Long, Wrong, Hong Kong'' in Western US and in Atlantic Canada ' is [ɑ:], /Q/ is occasionally heard tho' in Northern California, Oregon and Washington.
/ɑ/ in ''Song, Long, Wrong'' and [a] in ''Hong Kong'' is common in the Great Lakes Area.
/ɑ/ in ''Song, Long, Wrong, Hong Kong'' is frequent in the South as well, even in the c/c unmerged areas.
Even dictionaries that don't list the c/c/merged pronunciations (American Heritage Dict. for example), give the alternative -O(ng) pronunciations:
song [so:ŋ, sɑ:ŋ]
long [lo:ŋ), lɑ:ŋ]...
In Western and Central Canada (from Vancouver to Toronto) [Q] is preferred, but many people have [ɑ], they're interchangeable.
In St. John's (NewFoundland), the merged c/c vowel is in the central area [ä], and ''song, long, wrong, Hong Kong'' vowel is never fully back and rounded, it's less central than in the cot/caught vowel but they're not fully back and rounded (cot/caught [kä:t], doll/call [dɑ:l/kɑ:l], Hong Kong / wrong song [hɑ:ŋ kɑ:ŋ /wrɑ:ŋ sɑ:ŋ]...Here is a small sample: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MKPlsQuTjg
you can preview various dialectal pronunciations of some words here:
ALL
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_001_all.htm
LONG
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_052_long.htm
DAUGHTER
http://www.lel.ed.ac.uk/research/gsound/Eng/Database/Phonetics/Englishes/ByWord/Word_013_daughter.htm
Some traditional Scottish, Irish and/or Northern English accents have unrounded vowel /ɑ/ in ''all, long''...So, one could presume the unrounded pronunciation is the older one (compare with ALLES, LANG in German, these words have the unrounded vowel [ɑ]).
LONG [lɑ:ŋ, wrɑ:ŋ, sɑ:ŋ] in MW Learner's Dic:
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/long
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/wrong
http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/song
SONG ([sɑ:ŋ]) in Hollywood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_Z6Qg5XErA
Unrounded /ɑ/'s in a famous song: ''call, fall, long'' [kɑ:l, fɑ:l, lɑ:ŋ] California's Martika hit: Toy Soldiers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3eAzL6qsL4
thanks for the links.
The low back merger is one of my favorite topics here on the boards.
I don't know why so many Americans are unaware of its existence.
The low back merger is one of my favorite topics here on the boards.
I don't know why so many Americans are unaware of its existence.
It's [t@"mAroU] for me.
But I wonder if there is actually three variants among the entire NAmE, like "to-mah-ro", "to-maw-ro" and "to-more-ro"? By "to-maw-ro" I mean the THOUGHT set vowel for those who don't have c-c merger and don't use the tighter [o]~[O] either.
But I wonder if there is actually three variants among the entire NAmE, like "to-mah-ro", "to-maw-ro" and "to-more-ro"? By "to-maw-ro" I mean the THOUGHT set vowel for those who don't have c-c merger and don't use the tighter [o]~[O] either.
I think there probably is. I use the NORTH vowel in tomorrow, which I associate with the TONE vowel, and it is nothing like the CAUGHT vowel.
I pronounce Tomorrow as [tʰmɔʁoː], I'm from the Upper Midwest. And yes, that is a uvular R there, my R is uvular after back vowels.
I myself, being from Milwaukee rather than Fargo, say one of [ˈtʲʰmɑːʁo(ː)], [tʲʰə̃ːˈmɑːʁo(ː)], [tʲʰʉ̯̃ũˈmɑːʁo(ː)], or, only if preceded by a vowel, [ɾ̥ʲə̃ːˈmɑːʁo(ː)]. (And yes, that really is a uvular /r/ there.)
So that's what they're talking about! This guy doesn't even sound like he belongs in North America:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSFSQb93aw&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sSFSQb93aw&NR=1
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