What are the contexts for these words?
They both mean brown but I hear one just applies to objects or hair or something? Very confused.
They both mean brown but I hear one just applies to objects or hair or something? Very confused.
brun v. marron
The generic word for "brown" in french is "marron", this is the word used in the romance languages with slight differences.
"brun" was borroded from germanic, but doesn't exactly means the same, it is mainly applied as an adjextive relative to the hair color, for humans or animals (exemple: 'je suis brun' = I am brown-haired, "un ours brun"= a brown-haired bear). but if we ask "de quelle couleur est l'ours brun" (what color is the brown haired bear?), we would normally say " l'ours brun est marron" (the brown haired bear is of brown color). This might sounds absurd in english because "brown' is the color, but in french "brun" is not the name of the color, even if it describes one's hair color. But in the practice, "brun" has come to be used has a general color by some, in the same way we use "chatain" (also originally used for a hair color: meaning light brown hair)
"brun" was borroded from germanic, but doesn't exactly means the same, it is mainly applied as an adjextive relative to the hair color, for humans or animals (exemple: 'je suis brun' = I am brown-haired, "un ours brun"= a brown-haired bear). but if we ask "de quelle couleur est l'ours brun" (what color is the brown haired bear?), we would normally say " l'ours brun est marron" (the brown haired bear is of brown color). This might sounds absurd in english because "brown' is the color, but in french "brun" is not the name of the color, even if it describes one's hair color. But in the practice, "brun" has come to be used has a general color by some, in the same way we use "chatain" (also originally used for a hair color: meaning light brown hair)
guest guest : « "brun" was borroded from germanic [..] ».
Tu as des preuves à l'appui de cette affirmation ? Pourquoi ce vocable ne serait pas d'origine paléoromane par suite d'une transmission parallèle de l'indo-européen aux familles romane et germanique ?
Tu as des preuves à l'appui de cette affirmation ? Pourquoi ce vocable ne serait pas d'origine paléoromane par suite d'une transmission parallèle de l'indo-européen aux familles romane et germanique ?
<< if we ask "de quelle couleur est l'ours brun" (what color is the brown haired bear?), we would normally say " l'ours brun est marron" (the brown haired bear is of brown color) >>
-- I disagree. I would answer "l'ours brun est... brun."
<< They both mean brown but I hear one just applies to objects or hair or something? Very confused. >>
-- The difference between 'brun' and 'marron' is:
. 'brun' has a general meaning of 'rather dark', and implies that the substrate is naturally 'brown'.
. 'marron' generally applies to colours, dyes, paints etc., and often has a more specifically defined reddish shade (like chestnuts).
Examples:
- cheveux bruns, yeux bruns, bière brune, tabac brun etc.
- chaussures marron, veste marron, peinture marron, pigments marron, etc.
Rosewood is a 'bois brun', but to give some white wood a brown colour you use a 'peinture marron'...
"Pour colorier les cheveux en brun, prend un crayon marron !"
hope that helps...
-- I disagree. I would answer "l'ours brun est... brun."
<< They both mean brown but I hear one just applies to objects or hair or something? Very confused. >>
-- The difference between 'brun' and 'marron' is:
. 'brun' has a general meaning of 'rather dark', and implies that the substrate is naturally 'brown'.
. 'marron' generally applies to colours, dyes, paints etc., and often has a more specifically defined reddish shade (like chestnuts).
Examples:
- cheveux bruns, yeux bruns, bière brune, tabac brun etc.
- chaussures marron, veste marron, peinture marron, pigments marron, etc.
Rosewood is a 'bois brun', but to give some white wood a brown colour you use a 'peinture marron'...
"Pour colorier les cheveux en brun, prend un crayon marron !"
hope that helps...
<<Tu as des preuves à l'appui de cette affirmation ? >>
Just out of curiosity greg, what would be an example of evidence that would satisfy you in this regard?
Just out of curiosity greg, what would be an example of evidence that would satisfy you in this regard?
<<Just out of curiosity greg, what would be an example of evidence that would satisfy you in this regard? >>
I'll bet it's the writing of a meideval scribe saying "***ATTENTION gREG***: I am borrowing this word from <insert language of choice here> for your future affirmation and piss of mind"
nah,,, even then he'd prob still disbelieve it. However, words from an imaginary langue like oro-romance/-putro-italian he requires no such proof--he is on tippie-toes to believe that. Bah!
I'll bet it's the writing of a meideval scribe saying "***ATTENTION gREG***: I am borrowing this word from <insert language of choice here> for your future affirmation and piss of mind"
nah,,, even then he'd prob still disbelieve it. However, words from an imaginary langue like oro-romance/-putro-italian he requires no such proof--he is on tippie-toes to believe that. Bah!
I am French but I disagree with Parisien while I agree with "guest guest", who posted the second message of this topic.
I would indeed say that "l'ours brun est marron" and I even happen to talk about "les cheveux marrons". For me, "marron" is a colour" but "brun" is not. It mainly applies to hair but it is indeed true that we say things like " de la bière brune" (but I have never said nor heard "les yeux bruns", which sounds quite wrong to me). For me, "brun" is only part of set phrases but I never use it spontaneously otherwise.
I would indeed say that "l'ours brun est marron" and I even happen to talk about "les cheveux marrons". For me, "marron" is a colour" but "brun" is not. It mainly applies to hair but it is indeed true that we say things like " de la bière brune" (but I have never said nor heard "les yeux bruns", which sounds quite wrong to me). For me, "brun" is only part of set phrases but I never use it spontaneously otherwise.
Yes, true.
While some dictionaries might go in the definitions that Parisien gave,
In actual speech the word "marron" in french has the general meaning for the color 'brown' in english.
"brun/brune" is used mainly is ready-made expressions, hair color, kind of beer, or such. 'Brun' is much more specific, but, even if it should, it doesn't really express a difference of nuance.
While some dictionaries might go in the definitions that Parisien gave,
In actual speech the word "marron" in french has the general meaning for the color 'brown' in english.
"brun/brune" is used mainly is ready-made expressions, hair color, kind of beer, or such. 'Brun' is much more specific, but, even if it should, it doesn't really express a difference of nuance.
" Examples:
- cheveux bruns, yeux bruns, bière brune, tabac brun etc.
- chaussures marron, veste marron, peinture marron, pigments marron, etc. "
No, saying "bière brune' is an expression, it doesn't really describe the general color of the beer. The same way we use the expression "biere blonde" in opposition to "biere brune"; it is because "brun/blond" are terms that are associated together, appying to haire color, but are not really colors themselves; "bière blonde" is 'jaune' (yellow), the same way that the color of the "bière brune" is marron (brown).
in the other romance languages, "brown" is:
Spanish: marron
Italian: marrone
- cheveux bruns, yeux bruns, bière brune, tabac brun etc.
- chaussures marron, veste marron, peinture marron, pigments marron, etc. "
No, saying "bière brune' is an expression, it doesn't really describe the general color of the beer. The same way we use the expression "biere blonde" in opposition to "biere brune"; it is because "brun/blond" are terms that are associated together, appying to haire color, but are not really colors themselves; "bière blonde" is 'jaune' (yellow), the same way that the color of the "bière brune" is marron (brown).
in the other romance languages, "brown" is:
Spanish: marron
Italian: marrone
<< I have never said nor heard "les yeux bruns", which sounds quite wrong to me >>
-- Ridicule. Vérifie sur Google...
La différence entre 'yeux bruns' et 'yeux marron' est que 'brun' est une catégorie relativement large, couvrant du jaune au presque noir, alors que 'marron' désigne une nuance précise, couleur de châtaigne (à peu près équivalente au "brun-rouge").
En tant que catégorie divisive, 'yeux bruns' a un contraire qui est 'yeux clairs' (bleus, verts, gris), alors que 'marron' n'a pas d'antonyme.
En conséquence, on dira que telle famille, telle population, telle race etc. a "les yeux bruns" (susceptible de variations entre noisette et noir), alors que 'yeux marron' ne peut s'appliquer que pour décrire un individu précis.
De même, on parle de "rochers bruns", "terres brunes" vu la diversité des nuances possibles.
La tendance naturelle du français est de spécialiser les mots qui risqueraient d'être synonymes. Les champs sémantiques respectifs de 'brun' et 'marron' en sont un bon exemple.
<< Does region have anything to do with the selection of brun vs marron? >>
-- Possibly. I have never heard "yeux marron" in Normandy. It sounds quite weird to me actually.
-- Ridicule. Vérifie sur Google...
La différence entre 'yeux bruns' et 'yeux marron' est que 'brun' est une catégorie relativement large, couvrant du jaune au presque noir, alors que 'marron' désigne une nuance précise, couleur de châtaigne (à peu près équivalente au "brun-rouge").
En tant que catégorie divisive, 'yeux bruns' a un contraire qui est 'yeux clairs' (bleus, verts, gris), alors que 'marron' n'a pas d'antonyme.
En conséquence, on dira que telle famille, telle population, telle race etc. a "les yeux bruns" (susceptible de variations entre noisette et noir), alors que 'yeux marron' ne peut s'appliquer que pour décrire un individu précis.
De même, on parle de "rochers bruns", "terres brunes" vu la diversité des nuances possibles.
La tendance naturelle du français est de spécialiser les mots qui risqueraient d'être synonymes. Les champs sémantiques respectifs de 'brun' et 'marron' en sont un bon exemple.
<< Does region have anything to do with the selection of brun vs marron? >>
-- Possibly. I have never heard "yeux marron" in Normandy. It sounds quite weird to me actually.
In the English that I have been using, I understand marron to be a dark red colour with a very small amount of purple in it. To me it sounds very strange to associate marron with brown. For a long time I had a marron (dark red) jumper (sweater in US English), until it was stolen.
<< -- Ridicule. Vérifie sur Google... >>
Quelle tolérance. Je dis que je ne l'ai jamais dit et jamais entendu, ça n'a rien de ridicule, c'est un fait. Ce n'est pas parce que ça se trouve ou que tu le dis que ça signifie que tout le monde dit comme toi et qu'il est ridicule de ne pas le dire ...
Quant à Google, "yeux marron" donne 177000 réponses exactes, et même 349000 réponses exactes si on met un "s" à "marron" (même si théoriquement c'est une erreur). "yeux bruns" donne 65300 réponses exactes. Alors même si ça se dit, que je ne le dise pas et ne l'aie jamais entendu autour de moi n'a rien de ridicule puisque "yeux bruns" est largement minoritaire ...
Quelle tolérance. Je dis que je ne l'ai jamais dit et jamais entendu, ça n'a rien de ridicule, c'est un fait. Ce n'est pas parce que ça se trouve ou que tu le dis que ça signifie que tout le monde dit comme toi et qu'il est ridicule de ne pas le dire ...
Quant à Google, "yeux marron" donne 177000 réponses exactes, et même 349000 réponses exactes si on met un "s" à "marron" (même si théoriquement c'est une erreur). "yeux bruns" donne 65300 réponses exactes. Alors même si ça se dit, que je ne le dise pas et ne l'aie jamais entendu autour de moi n'a rien de ridicule puisque "yeux bruns" est largement minoritaire ...