What accent do you really hate? and which one you love?

<<What he was doing is exactly what so many of his fellow Sassenachs (that's English people to those who don't know) delight in doing.......trashing and dissing Welsh ....a Celtic Language which they resent simply because it still exists and has stood firm against the English tide over the centuries ...and they haven't a hope in hell of getting their tongues round.....or more likely, never intend to. >>

Well, why would they have to, unless they move to a Welsh-speaking area of Wales? What's the point otherwise? I doubt that many English people 'resent' Welsh because it 'still exists' - I seriously doubt that anyone in England ever gives Welsh a second thought. For myself, I couldn't possibly care less if the Welsh speak English, Welsh, Tagalog or Martian. From my point of view, a lot of English people 'trash and diss' Welsh and the Welsh people because of the hatred and hostility they display towards us - wallowing in their imagined oppression and victimhood.

***wallowing in their imagined oppression and victimhood.***

Imagined, Candy? What makes you think it's imagined? As a Scot I can relate to Welsh feelings when it comes to dealing with the attitudes of SOME (not all by any means...some) English people with regard to the way they seem to enjoy downgrading the status of Scottish and Welsh culture, even to the way they think it great fun to make no effort whatsoever to pronounce local placenames in both Wales and Scotland. Even when told how to pronounce these names properly....or reasonably properly....they cop out and maintain their English tongues are incapable.

If a lady singer from Greece can sing the entire Welsh national anthem in absolutely spot on pronunciation and emphasis, even the dreaded LL and CH sounds, why can't someone from much closer to Wales? Next door, literally.

I can't tell you how irritating it is for Scots to hear English people say how much they love Lock Lomond. Of course, everybody loves it but it's not a canal, for goodness sake...it's a LOCH!....a lake. All they need to do is pretend they're clearing their throats. Just imagine an English person say how much they love Loch Venachar, Loch Rannoch and Auchtermuchty. They'd need throat pastilles. :-)

Anyway, Candy, why would English people need to move to Wales before they attempt to pronounce Welsh names properly? Would you say the same about French names? Like messing up pronouncing Amiens or Chartres because they won't be going to France anyway.

My real name has a 'th' in it, but I don't throw a hissy fit when non-native speakers don't make an effort to pronounce it correctly (Germans usually pronounce my name as if it's German). Loads and loads of foreign visitors to England fail to pronounce English placenames properly - I don't see that as disrespect to English culture. (I met some French tourists who didn't even attempt to say 'Plymouth' properly. So what? I knew where they meant). What about if French/German/whatever tourists can't say Welsh names? Is this also downgrading the status of Welsh culture - or do you have to be English to do that?

As for place names, when I'm speaking English, I say Milan not Milano, Munich not München, Seville not Sevilla. How far are we supposed to go when pronouncing foreign names? 'I'm going to Firenze next week' sounds pretentious. And geographical proximity has nothing to do with ability to pronounce things - maybe there are sounds in Greek closer to Welsh than English sounds, I don't know. I used to know a native Afrikaans speaker who found Arabic easy to pronounce, despite the massive distance across Africa.

Of course Damian's aware of the thousands of Frenchman who pass through Heathrow Airport who have trouble pronouncing it. i.e. "eet-Rrô" for Heathrow. But he wouldn't see this as downgrading, maybe because he thinks English is "just" English that can tolerate any amount of deformation.

He's just having his usual hissy Anglophobic fit. It's all part of some childish hang-up and axe to grind.

although americans originally came from england, I think American accent is more comprehensible. Especially Bostonian Accent "with all my hat(heart)"

I am american and my husband and I are embarking on a 9 day trip to London in less than two weeks. Business trip for him although we will have 6 days to roam around business. I am paranoid and scared of what WE sound like to the English.
I am from the east coast, NJ...about and hour from NY so you can imagine my accent. "Dawg" and "Cawfee" and the infamous, "Yo" for example. My husband is from Michigan, he's new in NJ. He sounds much different than me.
What shall we expect as visitors? I am so scared that I think I need meds for the arrival :/

Thanks, Candy......taken on board. Perhaps it is a wee bit of Anglophobia on my part as Meh suggests, but I do stand by my contention that SOME English people do tend to think that the Scots and the Welsh are "inferior" and look down on us and our separateness. I cannot compare the English with people from outside these islands......we are all supposed to be fellow Brits so I really think we should make special efforts to appreciate all our collective differences and identifiable cultures, and this should extend to the Language issue....certainly when it comes to trying to pronounce the place names at least reasonably well and not making what seems like deliberate pig's ears out of it.

Nevertheless I don't see myself purposefully making a mess of the pronunciation of seemingly "weird" place names in England.....like Wymondham (windum) or Happisburgh (hazebruh) or Leominster (lemster)....official and correct pronunciations in brackets.

I love hearing the French accent when they speak English and a French person landing at 'Ees-row" (Heathrow) and then want to go by train to to Plym-uss (Plymouth) is fine by me. On route then can have a wild night out in Londres and that's great too. They're more than welcome to travel north and come here to Edimbourg.


Rene: What are you getting all wound up about? American accents abound in London and are very familiar wherever you go in the rest of the UK so chill out. Nobody will be bothered by your accent at all and will not even notice it... whether it's NJ or anywhere else in America. It just won't be an issue for you at all. We've seen and heard the lot here so it's no big deal at all, believe me so I can't understand why you say you're scared or even what you're scared about. Be yourselves and enjoy. Just be prepared for London prices! Now I know what you're scared off...! It's not really your accent and a reaction here is it? It's the notorious London prices......

<<Nevertheless I don't see myself purposefully making a mess of the pronunciation of seemingly "weird" place names in England>>

But you're a native English speaker. How is an English person (or a French person or a German or anyone else) supposed to know how to pronounce Betws-y-Coed, for example? I don't think people deliberately 'make a mess' of Welsh or Scottish names, any more than French people deliberately say 'Ees-rro' when they could pronounce Heathrow perfectly if they chose to. I myself have absolutely no idea how to say Ben Macdhui, which is the 2nd highest mountain in Scotland, I think - just to give an example. Macdoy? Macjoo? Is that my English arrogance, or the fact that I've never learnt GAelic pronunciation?

<<I do stand by my contention that SOME English people do tend to think that the Scots and the Welsh are "inferior" and look down on us and our separateness.>>

Possibly, or maybe this is an understandable reaction to the rampant Anglophobia displayed by many Scots and Welsh (not all, of course, or even most....but many). You say we should appreciate each other's differences - agreed 100%, but how often do Scottish or Welsh people appreciate Englishness? Why is it only the English who have to make an effort?

<<Would you say the same about French names?>>
Would you say the same about Hungarian names? Or Portuguese, or Indonesian, or Chinese? Is an inability to pronounce any and all placenames of the world exactly like a native speaker cultural arrogance?

***how often do Scottish or Welsh people appreciate Englishness***

Candy: I really enjoy your responses.....I'll attempt to respond further but I've only just come in at near on midnight been out with mates and i'm off to bed fair soon but of course we appreciate Englishness...I've said before that some of my very best mates are English and I've got really good mates from uni who live in Milton Keynes, Lincoln, Wetherby, Hereford, London, Reading, Epsom and Sutton Coldfield.....all in England...so I appreciate Englishness a lot. But my best mate from uni lives in Wales.

There's always be an England
Nite nite fae Bonnie Scotland
x

Hope you slept well, Damian! :)
Friends in Milton Keynes?? Those poor, poor people. :) Lincoln and Hereford - much better.

Like a top, Candy! Hey...Milton Keynes is a cool place!...loads of fun things going on there...I love it. It's great if you like roundabouts as well...never seen a city with so many. It must be the home of Estuaryspeak as well!......they mostly seem to either speak a form of RP or Estuary....the first for over 30s and the second for under 30s.

Full of cool English people! :-)

My grandparents live near Hereford....different accent altogther down there...sounds like a wee bit of Welsh mixed up with a bit of West Country accent in older people especially...the younger people a little bit like M/Keynes but not so much Estuary. A bit like in Hollyoaks (prog on Ch4 TV if you know it and that's set in Chester, which is another English city right near the English border with Wales).

In Chester, it's still permitted to kill a Welshman within the city walls by a crossbow.

"What he was doing is exactly what so many of his fellow Sassenachs (that's English people to those who don't know) delight in doing.......trashing and dissing Welsh ....a Celtic Language which they resent simply because it still exists and has stood firm against the English tide over the centuries ...and they haven't a hope in hell of getting their tongues round.....or more likely, never intend to."

I don't resent Welsh. I'm glad that the UK has these different languages. I just reckon that when an Englishman makes fun of a Welshman (and maybe vice versa) it is just friendly banter. It wouldn't be normal for an Englishman and a Welshman to make fun of each other's nations. But we're still British, though - the English reserve their worst insults for the French.

I tried to teach myself Welsh once, but it's difficult. Feminie nouns change their spelling depending on how you use them in the sentence, and that is what made me give up.

As Blackadder once said to Baldrick: "Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?"

Baldrick: "No, but I've always thought I'd like to."

Blackadder: "Well don't. It's a ghastly place. Never go asking for directions in Wales, Baldrick, or you'll be wiping spit out of your hair for a week."

"tried to teach myself Welsh once, but it's difficult."
Shouldn't have gave up boyo.

It's not the pronounciation of Welsh that's difficult. It looks difficult, but it's easier than English. It's the things such as "careg = stone", "y gareg = the stone" and the different ways of spelling "careg" to say "my stone" and "her stone". And that's only for words beginning with C. For words beginning wiith D or F there's a completely different combinations.

When I found this out, I gave in.