Capitalism

Capitalism

The choice is often presented of 'Capitalism' or 'Communism', 'Christianity' or 'Islam'?

Americans will often express belief in the 'the American way of life' and 'Freedom!'.



Following the First and the Second World War, and the Cold War, America has emerged as the world's only superpower.

Logic would suggest that the average standard of living is higher in the United States than in most other countries. That is not a triumph of Capitalism over Communism, or Christianity over Islam. That is a triumph of wealth over poverty.

I in no way support communism, but can someone please explain to me why all problems in current and former communist countries are attributed to communism?

How can you explain the fact that there are just as many poor countries in Africa, Asia and Latin America that are capitalist? Is this poverty attributable to capitalism?

Damian, in another thread, gave a description of Romania that sounds quite similar to some things I've seen in Mexico, yet Mexico is capitalist and has been for most of its history. Is it poor because of capitalism?

This is a serious question, please answer it, I want to know your opinion.

*Part of* the answer is this:

Fundamental to Capitalism is the removal of force from economic relationships. When a govt is riddled with corruption (eg, in Africa), or socialism (eg, in South America), you cannot call that Capitalism.

The USA is closest to the Capitalist ideal, which is why it is the one Superpower. China is getting away from Communism and toward Capitalism (whether they'll admit that or not), which is why their economy is burgeoning.

All Third World Countries are Capitalist
Capitalism does not work dude. It only work. If you have or had slave to work for you to build your nasty Capital

the world is proof. Capitalism = Poverty and Capitalism must be eradicated

I know from past experience that it is foolish to try to have a sensible discussion on Antimoon. However the following sentence by Timothy is patently false.

"The USA is closest to the Capitalist ideal, which is why it is the one Superpower."


I tend to think of Capitalism as being quite a primitive economic model. However in the USA they have developed an ideology of capitalism and freedom that run together. That private property is the cornerstone of freedom.

There is an element of truth to this point of view. That certain personal liberties encourage and protect economic activity. That if you think that your work will not be rewarded, you will not work.

However the freemarket capitalism that allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, triggered a collapse in the entire Banking system. Also, freemarket capitalism is destroying the environment and plundering the Earth for the benefit of the American consumer.

Americans can believe the Earth is flat and it is very difficult to shake them from their belief.

<<However the freemarket capitalism that allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, triggered a collapse in the entire Banking system. Also, freemarket capitalism is destroying the environment and plundering the Earth for the benefit of the American consumer.>>

Robin Michael, I highly doubt that American consumers are entirely responsible for the environmental issues we are all facing. During the nineteenth-century, large swaths of London were covered in soot. The amount of environmental damage caused by China is very large and it continues to grow. Brittan, France, Germany, Australia, Canada, India . . . all are responsible. As far as "plundering the earth", there are very few nations left that haven’t plundered the greater share of their natural resources. Might I remind you that the United States was the first nation to ever set aside wilderness areas for preservation.

Truly, you all are over simplifying matters here. Ignoring a long history of European and American imperialism and its effects in Asia, Africa, and South America is stupid. One cannot just say, "These countries are poor, therefore, Capitalism is bad". Likewise, stating that “Communism is bad because those countries are poor and their peoples oppressed" ignores crucial details. Have you ever thought that one may not have to do with the other. All of the Communist countries that have come into existence have also been Authoritarian. This is the reason why Americans often conflate the two (though I would say that socialism, which already exists in the United States, is growing in popularity among the younger generations). Though we have not seen it, it may be entirely possible for a communist country to also be a Republic in more than just name, unlike The "People's Republic" of China.

Also, there is no reason why it must be all or nothing. If you watch the news, it always seems to be a fight between the extremes of a free market economy and the dreaded "s" word. Really, a free market economy is incredibly dangerous, unwieldy, and has a tendency to create a great divide between the poor and the rich. It is, after all, the hands off approach that created the current economic situation. There must be regulation, but that does not mean that we must entirely forfeit the innovation and desire to achieve that often accompanies profit. There is a happy medium if we try to find it.

Robin Michael, I do agree that it's hard to have a decent discussion on here, so I'm not going to invest a lot of time on this. Suffice it to say, I disagree with you, and little things like the banking "collapse" are hardly proof of the invalidity of an entire economic model. That banking "collapse" was a well-needed correction and lesson to certain people. It hardly invalidates Capitalism.

That's just one of the things I disagreed with, but again, I don't want to invest time here.

"No man has the right to -initiate- the use of force against another."
-Ayn Rand

A fundamental part of Capitalism is the removal of force from economic relationships.

<The USA is closest to the Capitalist ideal, which is why it is the one Superpower.">

Robin Michael is correct: the second clause does not follow from the first, since non-Capitalist superpowers have existed.

With so much drama in the l-b-c
Its kinda hard bein snoop d-o-double-g
But i, somehow, some way
Keep comin up with funky ass shit like every single day
May i, kick a little something for the gs (yeah)
And, make a few ends as (yeah!) I breeze, through
Two in the mornin and the partys still jumpin
Cause my momma aint home
I got bitches in the living room gettin it on
And, they aint leavin til six in the mornin (six in the mornin)
So what you wanna do, sheeeit
I got a pocket full of rubbers and my homeboys do too
So turn off the lights and close the doors
But (but what) we don't love them hoes, yeah!
So we gonna smoke a ounce to this
Gs up, hoes down, while you motherfuckers bounce to this

Chorus: repeat 2x

Rollin down the street, smokin indo, sippin on gin and juice
Laid back [with my mind on my money and my money on my mind]

Verse two:

Now, that, I got me some seagrams gin
Everybody got they cups, but they aint chipped in
Now this types of shit, happens all the time
You got to get yours but fool I gotta get mine
Everything is fine when you listenin to the d-o-g
I got the cultivating music that be captivating he
Who listens, to the words that I speak
As I take me a drink to the middle of the street
And get to mackin to this bitch named sadie (sadie? )
She used to be the homeboys lady (oh, that bitch)
Eighty degrees, when I tell that bitch please
Raise up off these n-u-ts, cause you gets none of these
At ease, as I mob with the dogg pound, feel the breeze
Beeeitch, Im just

Chorus

Verse three:

Later on that day
My homey dr. dre came through with a gang of tanqueray
And a fat ass j, of some bubonic chronic that made me choke
Shit, this aint no joke
I had to back up off of it and sit my cup down
Tanqueray and chronic, yeah Im fucked up now
But it aint no stoppin, Im still poppin
Dre got some bitches from the city of compton
To serve me, not with a cherry on top
Cause when I bust my nut, Im raisin up off the cot
Don't get upset girl, that's just how it goes
I don't love you hoes, Im out the do
And I'll be

Chorus

Rollin down the street, smokin indo, sippin on gin and juice (beeotch!!)
Laid back [with my mind on my money and my money on my mind]
Rollin down the street, smokin indo, sippin on gin and juice (beeotch!!)
Laid back [with my mind on my money and my money on my mind]

Timothy Mon Dec 28, 2009 10:54 pm GMT
*Part of* the answer is this:

Fundamental to Capitalism is the removal of force from economic relationships. When a govt is riddled with corruption (eg, in Africa), or socialism (eg, in South America), you cannot call that Capitalism.

The USA is closest to the Capitalist ideal, which is why it is the one Superpower. China is getting away from Communism and toward Capitalism (whether they'll admit that or not), which is why their economy is burgeoning.
________________________________

Good! So Communist China always addressed as such by brainwashed western media is just a misnomber?


>>Poverty Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:46 am GMT
All Third World Countries are Capitalist
Capitalism does not work dude. It only work. If you have or had slave to work for you to build your nasty Capital

the world is proof. Capitalism = Poverty and Capitalism must be eradicated <<

The most percipient view at Antimoon in this CAPITALISM issue discussions!:-)
Marx long ago already uncovered the dirty secrect of what drives forwatd capitalist society ---ENDLESS greed for ever MORE possesstion of money/cash/capital/returns(whatever you call it) beyond his FAIR share!



>>>Robin Michael Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:37 am GMT
I know from past experience that it is foolish to try to have a sensible discussion on Antimoon. However the following sentence by Timothy is patently false.

"The USA is closest to the Capitalist ideal, which is why it is the one Superpower."


I tend to think of Capitalism as being quite a primitive economic model. However in the USA they have developed an ideology of capitalism and freedom that run together. That private property is the cornerstone of freedom.

There is an element of truth to this point of view. That certain personal liberties encourage and protect economic activity. That if you think that your work will not be rewarded, you will not work.

However the freemarket capitalism that allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, triggered a collapse in the entire Banking system. Also, freemarket capitalism is destroying the environment and plundering the Earth for the benefit of the American consumer.

Americans can believe the Earth is flat and it is very difficult to shake them from their belief. <<<

Hhaha, RM, with such remakrs of yrs, Shuimo wud set you apart from the majority of these brain-washed lambs who said anything about capitalism here at Antimoon!

Don't worry about egoistc Americans who are good for nothing but "rice barrels"!
We wise Chinese people would have to teach them a bitter lesson in one way or another!
Bigoted Americans' feeling good days are already fast numbered!^_^

Wintereis Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:04 am GMT

Ignoring a long history of European and American imperialism and its effects in Asia, Africa, and South America is stupid. One cannot just say, "These countries are poor, therefore, Capitalism is bad". Likewise, stating that “Communism is bad because those countries are poor and their peoples oppressed" ignores crucial details.
___________________________________________

Gutsy honesty and good point!O(∩_∩)O

Then what caused European and American imperialism?
Don't you tell me that Europe and America shouldn't be regarded as CAPITALIST when they were engaged in IMPERIALISM merry-go-round?^_^

>>All of the Communist countries that have come into existence have also been Authoritarian. This is the reason why Americans often conflate the two <<

Sounds nice!^_^

Then why on earth must Americans CONFLATE the two?

There is but one crucial issue in this capitalism vs commumism debate!

Do the two terms fall into only economic spheres, or just political spheres, or span both economic and political spheres?

Answers of different kinds to this question will produce substantially different understandings and interpretations of the social systems at work in different countries!

Well do you agree it would be good to suck me off then Timothy ..?

ROBIN MICHAEL:

"I tend to think of Capitalism as being quite a primitive economic model. However in the USA they have developed an ideology of capitalism and freedom that run together. That private property is the cornerstone of freedom....However the freemarket capitalism that allowed Lehman Brothers to fail, triggered a collapse in the entire Banking system. Also, freemarket capitalism is destroying the environment and plundering the Earth for the benefit of the American consumer."

Robin Michael, this American agrees with your words.

You agree with my words..? well you can suck me off after Timothy has gulped my load..