bum vs bomb [US vowels]
As a near-RP exile in California, I find the STRUT vowel gives me the most problems in comprehending spoken English. In in my native dialect, although I have four open central/back unrounded vowels, they are all distinguishable without regard to tongue position:
STRUT is unrounded and short
PALM is unrounded and long
LOT is rounded and short
THOUGHT is rounded and long.
In the local California dialect there are only two such vowels: LOT/PALM/THOUGHT and STRUT. However, they are both unrounded, and length is not a reliable way to distinguish them. As a result, I am unable to tell the difference between pairs such as "bum" and "bomb". I'd be very grateful for any expert advice :)
I don't have any problem distinguishing them. I think you need listening practice.
"Bomb" should be much more open. "Bum" is closed and very much like a schwa (the first sound in "away").
i too have distinguishing.
bum as a homophone of bomb? i dont see that possible...possibly wrong word/vowel??
All of you seem to be missing the point.
London and Australian pronunciation of BUM sounds like how many Americans pronounce BOMB (in the US there is no phonetical vowel length so both can be transcribed as [bäm]).
[bäm] (''bum'' in London and Sydney; ''bomb'' in NYC)
[bäs] (''bus'' in London, Sydney, Toronto, Pittsburgh; ''boss'' in Phoenix and St.John's NF)
[rän] (''run'' in London, Sydney, Pittsburgh; ''Ron'' in Phoenix, Chicago and St. John's NF)
[läst] (''lust'' in London and Sydney; ''lost'' in Phoenix and St. John's NF)
[säk] (''suck'' in London, Sydney and Pittsburgh; ''sock'' in Phoenix and St. John's NF)
Also
[käm] (''come'' in London, Sydney and Pittsburgh; ''calm'' in Phoenix and St. John's NF /if L is not pronounced/)
So, COME DOWN! as pronounced by a man from London (or Sydney) sounds like CALM DOWN! as pronounced by a man from Phoenix AZ or St. John's NF (if L-less pronunciation is used)
Most European speakers of English use (or are advised to use, by their teachers) a simple low central unrounded [ä] for the STRUT vowel, since it's a fashionable pronunciation in modern RP (traditional RP uses a much closer variant similar to /ə/ which is now used only in some places in Western parts of England). Of course speakers of these versions dont confuse their [ä]'s in ''run, bum'' with the vowel in ''Ron, bomb'', it's because the ''Ron, bomb'' vowel is rounded!!!
Off topic a little but maybe that is why people hear 'Spanish bums' instead of 'Spanish bombs', referring to the Clash song. :)
Milton:
The original poster is in California and never mentioned he/she was from London, so I don't see how any of this is relevant.
They said they were a "near-RP exile in California", which I interpreted as meaning they were a Briton living in California.
I interpreted "As a result, I am unable to tell the difference between pairs such as 'bum' and 'bomb'" as "As a result, I am unable to tell the difference between how Californians pronounce pairs such as 'bum' and 'bomb'". So I don't see how the London pronunciation is all that relevant, other than it might be causing interference in vp's vowel parsing.
A question to Brits (especially from London area), is it possible to confuse 'bomb' with 'bam' (like when you're talking about Bam Margera?)? Someone told me that in England /æ/ vowel found in words like: trap, back, sack...etc. is nowadays identical or very similar to /a/ or /ä/...Is this true?
Isn't the vowel in "bomb" longer than the one in "bum" for most Americans in most cases?
I can see how "butt" and "bot" sound alike to you (since they both have short vowels) but I think as long as it isn't followed by a voiceless consonant, the PALM/LOT/THOUGHT vowel is always longer than the one in the corresponding STRUT word.
Also, their "bum" is – regarding the tongue postition – closer to your "bum" than to your "bomb" while their "bomb" is closer to your "bomb" than to your "bum". I really don't see the problem.
>Carpenter Fred Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:23 am GMT
I once met a person in the southeast of England whose /æ/ and /ʌ/ seemed 100% indistinguishable to me. The sound she was using for those two vowels seemed to me like something between [a] and [ä] (closer to [ä]). But that was an exception. Most people were using [a] and [ä] respectively. Pretty similar, but still distinguishable.
the PALM/LOT/THOUGHT vowel is always longer than the one in the corresponding STRUT word
//In most American accent this is not true at all.
For example LOVE can have a long vowel, especially ephatically: l@@@v...
And BODY can have a short vowel.
