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"thwarted rage"
Hello to everybody!
Help me, please, with the phrase "thwarted rage". I can't understand its meaning. A person took seriously ill because of paroxysms of thwarted rage. What might "thwarted" mean in this context? "Suppressed"?
Incidentally I read on a The Economist's article (http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15386680) the expression "thwarted prediction", the whole sentence was:
"BRITAIN’S long-awaited exit from recession has moved from thwarted prediction to firm fact." The exact meaning of this phrase is not clear as "thwart" means "to prevent sb from doing what they want to do". According to Oxford Collocations Dictionary, thwarted is used before nouns like "ambition" and "desire". I really can't understanding the meaning of these phrases. I guess it means something like "frustated". Thank you.
<<Help me, please, with the phrase "thwarted rage". I can't understand its meaning. A person took seriously ill because of paroxysms of thwarted rage. What might "thwarted" mean in this context? "Suppressed"? >>
thwarted rage = pent-up / repressed / suppressed anger
"BRITAIN’S long-awaited exit from recession has moved from thwarted prediction to firm fact."
Sounds like you need more information than is contained in this single sentence -- you may need to refer back to the rest of the article to get why the prediction was thwarted. Not all sentences stand alone. Either the prediction initially looked like it wouldn't come true, or the predictors were strongly discouraged from making it, would be my guess.
Thank you, Uriel. The whole article is available on
http://www.economist.com/world/britain/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15386680 The title of the article is "Stuck in the mud - The British economy is struggling to get out of the mire" and the first paragraph is "BRITAIN’S long-awaited exit from recession has moved from thwarted prediction to firm fact. But the welcome news came with a painful sting. The economy barely crawled forward, expanding by just 0.1% between the third and the fourth quarters of 2009, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS) on Tuesday January 26th. This was much feebler than the median forecast among City economists for an increase of 0.4%." I suppose the meaning should be "the prediction initially looked like it wouldn't come true".
To thwart something is to prevent it from happening, to hinder it, to obstruct it. But it also implies that the thwarter is acting contrary to someone else's desires. If I thwart your plans, I don't want you to realise those plans, and so I obstruct them.
I can't thwart your rage, however, because rage is an emotion, not a planned activity. You can't thwart your own rage, obviously, because you are not someone else with different desires from yourself. So the phrase "thwarted rage" is nonsense.
<<You can't thwart your own rage, obviously, because you are not someone else with different desires from yourself. >>
No. You are beyond wrong. The rage is seen as some instinct of your body that tries to manifest itself against your will. Your body wants to rage, but your reason tells you not to. You have to fight against your animal instincts to bring yourself under control, thus "thwarting" the rage. <<But it also implies that the thwarter is acting contrary to someone else's desires.>> Yes, the thwarter is your reason, the thwarted is your body/instinct.
< No. You are beyond wrong. ... You have to fight against your animal instincts to bring yourself under control, thus "thwarting" the rage.
> If what you say were true, it would make sense to say "I thwarted my rage". But that sentence is clearly nonsensical (or at best, crudely medieval): it suggests two independent operators, with contrary plans and desires. On the other hand, you can suppress your rage, in the same way that you can keep your temper or maintain your equanimity; and that I suspect is what the (very tired?) journalist intended.
<<
If what you say were true, it would make sense to say "I thwarted my rage". But that sentence is clearly nonsensical (or at best, crudely medieval): it suggests two independent operators, with contrary plans and desires.>> It would make perfect sense to say "I thwarted my rage". Of course, you probably wouldn't say it in an everyday conversation, but I can EASILY imagine seeing such a sentence in a novel. It is an example of figurative language. If you've ever read a book you will realise that such a sentence is far from rebellious.
I can easily imagine seeing such a phrase in a novel; but it would be a misuse of the word, even figuratively.
Remember that plans can be "thwarted", but not emotions. Once the rage occurs, it is no longer "thwarted". If the rage does not occur, on the other hand, it is not "rage". "Suppressed" has different connotations: thus "suppressed rage" is not self-contradictory. Remember too the original context: <A person took seriously ill because of paroxysms of thwarted rage. What might "thwarted" mean in this context? "Suppressed"? > Nothing figurative there.
<<Remember that plans can be "thwarted", but not emotions. Once the rage occurs, it is no longer "thwarted". If the rage does not occur, on the other hand, it is not "rage".
>> There is no reason to suppose that emotions cannot be thwarted. Emotions can be thwarted if they are viewed as semi-personified elements independent of one's reason. <<A person took seriously ill because of paroxysms of thwarted rage.>> It means that the person suddenly begins to manifest signs of rage but manages to stop it and suppress it before it gets out of hand. So, I'm sorry ©, but you're wrong. Just accept that your desire to prove this usage incorrect has been thwarted.
Suppose you were in a rage, Rectifier.
What would be one way in which someone might "thwart" it?
<<Suppose you were in a rage, Rectifier.
What would be one way in which someone might "thwart" it? >> If I feel rage welling up in me I can attempt to thwart it by repeating to myself "calm down, calm down, get a grip on yourself, you don't want to do this, just let it go, you might kill soemone, do you really want to go to prison, it's not worth it, calm yourself, don't let your animal win over your reason". I can close my eyes and picture a sunny meadow and leaping hares. I can take a deep breath and employ meditation techniques. I can employ the techniques they teach in anger management courses.
<Emotions can be thwarted if they are viewed as semi-personified elements independent of one's reason. >
<If I feel rage...anger management courses.> Thus in your view, provided that "rage" and "reason" are viewed figuratively, like two little men in one body, "reason" can thwart "rage" in its attempt to — But that's the difficulty. To do what? To "rage"? Haven't you now replaced simple "rage" with a little inner man who rages, with all the attendant infinite regress? |