What is your opinion on Portuguese, sound wise and importance? Some think Portuguese is Spanish with a Russian accent. I personally think the language has a beautiful sound, particularly European Portuguese. Importance wise I think the importance of Portuguese is growing as Brazil's economy strengthens.
Opinion on Portuguese
I also think the importance of Portuguese is growing. We'll know when more Portuguese textbooks are offered. I think Portuguese is a beautiful language.
Portuguese is very impressive language.Beauty of Portuguese unfold in fado.I like both Iberian languages,Portuguese and Spanish. Brazilian Portuguese seems bit creole language.
Continental Portuguese = russian sounding
Brazilian Portuguese = italian-french-spanish sounding
Brazilian Portuguese = italian-french-spanish sounding
For me the most beautiful word in Portuguese is the adverb "antigamente = in the past". I find it visualy impressive, typed or hand-written; spoken, I find it very suggestive, it's enough to ear it once - or just say it silently for myself -, to make me day-dream.
When I was a kid, its spell over me was much stronger. I used to close my eyes and say it to myself, several times, very slowly. Then a sweet vertigo came, as the word's sound and meaning grew inside me; so many things that used to be and are no more, so many lives gone, so many lively conversations reduced to silence...
When I was a kid, its spell over me was much stronger. I used to close my eyes and say it to myself, several times, very slowly. Then a sweet vertigo came, as the word's sound and meaning grew inside me; so many things that used to be and are no more, so many lives gone, so many lively conversations reduced to silence...
Portuguese isn't growing, Brazilian Portuguese is, as someone said before me, Brazilian Portuguese is almost a creole language, the pronounciation has greatly diverged from European Portuguese, and sounds more Spanish/Italian than the Slavic-y sounds that European Portuguese makes.
Also, Brazilian Portuguese in some cases has simplified grammatical concepts, and basically made them more like Spanish.
European Portuguese is different enough to Brazilian Portuguese that half the day native speakers find it difficult to understand each other, so as a learner you haven't got a chance.
If you've got a specific interest in Portugal, learn European Portuguese, otherwise if you want to learn a language for business opportunities, future-proofing yourself, etc, go with Brazilian Portuguese. It'll save you a lot of headaches in the long run when you are able to start speaking with Brazilians and they'll actually have some idea of what you're saying.
Also, Brazilian Portuguese in some cases has simplified grammatical concepts, and basically made them more like Spanish.
European Portuguese is different enough to Brazilian Portuguese that half the day native speakers find it difficult to understand each other, so as a learner you haven't got a chance.
If you've got a specific interest in Portugal, learn European Portuguese, otherwise if you want to learn a language for business opportunities, future-proofing yourself, etc, go with Brazilian Portuguese. It'll save you a lot of headaches in the long run when you are able to start speaking with Brazilians and they'll actually have some idea of what you're saying.
<<Brazilian Portuguese is almost a creole language, the pronounciation has greatly diverged from European Portuguese, and sounds more Spanish/Italian than the Slavic-y sounds that European Portuguese makes.>>
The pronunciation of EUROPEAN PORTUGUESE, is the one that has diverged the most. Portuguese underwent dramatic and bizarre phonetic changes in the 18th century, becoming the slavic sounding vowel deficient mess that it is now. Brazilian Portuguese is essentially 17th century portuguese, and sounds akin to spanish/italian because that's the family of languages Portuguese comes from. Just because brazilians don't follow the latest linguistic caprices of Europeans doesn't make their language a "creole"...if anything it would be the other way around.
The pronunciation of EUROPEAN PORTUGUESE, is the one that has diverged the most. Portuguese underwent dramatic and bizarre phonetic changes in the 18th century, becoming the slavic sounding vowel deficient mess that it is now. Brazilian Portuguese is essentially 17th century portuguese, and sounds akin to spanish/italian because that's the family of languages Portuguese comes from. Just because brazilians don't follow the latest linguistic caprices of Europeans doesn't make their language a "creole"...if anything it would be the other way around.
Well,basically,my original intention was to defend the Brazilian portuguese, but the nonsense here in this forum is so strong that i even gave up.
"Just because brazilians don't follow the latest linguistic CAPRICES of Europeans doesn't make their language a "creole"...if anything it would be the other way around. "
Paul,I would be grateful if u show me one of these "caprices" of european portuguese that one normal brazilian did not studied in school.
^ To Originalname:
Brazilian portuguese = spanish italian.
Brz. portuguese = creole.
So spanish & italian= creole.Right.
Paul,I would be grateful if u show me one of these "caprices" of european portuguese that one normal brazilian did not studied in school.
^ To Originalname:
Brazilian portuguese = spanish italian.
Brz. portuguese = creole.
So spanish & italian= creole.Right.
«European Portuguese is different enough to Brazilian Portuguese that half the day native speakers find it difficult to understand each other, so as a learner you haven't got a chance. »
This is not true.
«The pronunciation of EUROPEAN PORTUGUESE, is the one that has diverged the most. Portuguese underwent dramatic and bizarre phonetic changes in the 18th century,...»
You're yet to produce evidence of that. Where are the 18th century records for pronunciation?
«...becoming the slavic sounding vowel deficient mess that it is now.»
Mess? It's quite regular in pronunciation rules. Just because you do not know the rules, do not say it's something random, because it's not. F.ex, English is a real pronunciation mess, nevethless, so what? There might be some influences of the English language in the stress timing of European Portuguese by the way. Watching lots of American films with subtitles does affect our language, but so what?
« Brazilian Portuguese is essentially 17th century portuguese, and sounds akin to spanish/italian because that's the family of languages Portuguese comes from. »
I'd say it sounds bit more Italian than Spanish but it's quite different from both Spanish and Italian. The arrival of Europeans to Brazil (Italinas/Germans/Spanish/Polish) had that effect, so what?
In spelling it is as much 17th century Portuguese as the European form, aka, quite different.
«Just because brazilians don't follow the latest linguistic caprices of Europeans...»
Where are those caprices? In your ignorant brain?
«doesn't make their language a "creole"...»
Agree. I love the way they speak and it's as valid as the European form.
«if anything it would be the other way around.»
Who cares about this? Non-Portuguese speakers? YES
Perhaps, I admit, a few narrow minded Portuguese as well, with whom I do not share the same opinion.
This is not true.
«The pronunciation of EUROPEAN PORTUGUESE, is the one that has diverged the most. Portuguese underwent dramatic and bizarre phonetic changes in the 18th century,...»
You're yet to produce evidence of that. Where are the 18th century records for pronunciation?
«...becoming the slavic sounding vowel deficient mess that it is now.»
Mess? It's quite regular in pronunciation rules. Just because you do not know the rules, do not say it's something random, because it's not. F.ex, English is a real pronunciation mess, nevethless, so what? There might be some influences of the English language in the stress timing of European Portuguese by the way. Watching lots of American films with subtitles does affect our language, but so what?
« Brazilian Portuguese is essentially 17th century portuguese, and sounds akin to spanish/italian because that's the family of languages Portuguese comes from. »
I'd say it sounds bit more Italian than Spanish but it's quite different from both Spanish and Italian. The arrival of Europeans to Brazil (Italinas/Germans/Spanish/Polish) had that effect, so what?
In spelling it is as much 17th century Portuguese as the European form, aka, quite different.
«Just because brazilians don't follow the latest linguistic caprices of Europeans...»
Where are those caprices? In your ignorant brain?
«doesn't make their language a "creole"...»
Agree. I love the way they speak and it's as valid as the European form.
«if anything it would be the other way around.»
Who cares about this? Non-Portuguese speakers? YES
Perhaps, I admit, a few narrow minded Portuguese as well, with whom I do not share the same opinion.
O pessoal aqui deste fórum costuma dizer que o português brasileiro soa como uma idioma crioulo ou como uma língua africana, e usa isso somente como sinônimo de idioma feio ou que seja falado gritando.
Há vários idiomas crioulos e cada um soa diferente do outro,se até dizem por aqui que o espanhol de argentina ou do chile soam diferente o que dizer dos idiomas crioulos.
E o português soa como língua africana?É o mesmo que dizer que soa como uma língua européia.Quantos idiomas têm na áfrica?Eu não sei muito bem,mas é capaz de ter mais do que até na própia europa,países que não foram colonizados são muito fragmentados do ponto de vista linguístico.
Há vários idiomas crioulos e cada um soa diferente do outro,se até dizem por aqui que o espanhol de argentina ou do chile soam diferente o que dizer dos idiomas crioulos.
E o português soa como língua africana?É o mesmo que dizer que soa como uma língua européia.Quantos idiomas têm na áfrica?Eu não sei muito bem,mas é capaz de ter mais do que até na própia europa,países que não foram colonizados são muito fragmentados do ponto de vista linguístico.
rafjed: "creole language" não quer dizer nem "língua africana", nem idioma feio, e, é claro, uma coisa nada tem a ver com a outra, exceto na cabeça dos preconceituosos de praxe. Quer dizer sim, que é uma língua moldada a partir da fusão de duas línguas, geralmente uma dominante e a outra, dominada. No caso do português brasileiro, as bases são o português seiscentista e o nhengatu, ou língua geral.
Everyone: the only people take would ever mistake Portuguese for Russian is someone who has *never* heard Russian.
João: A sua tese sobre as peculiariedades da língua portuguesa no Brasil serem creditadas à influência de línguas de imigrantes não é corroborada por nenhum historiador da língua. E não faz mesmo muito sentido: o Brasil teve mais de 350 anos de história antes que um punhado significativo de italianos aqui pusesse os pés. Lembro-me de ter lido na infância uma anedota sobre Olavo Bilac, na qual o dito cujo refutava um português que se jactava de falar a versão "correta" do idioma. Na anedota, o Bilac usava como argumento a peculiar maneira de os portugueses engolir as vogais. Assim, já no final do século XIX, quando mal chegavam os imigrantes, o falar brasileiro já era bastante distinto do falar europeu.
Pena que não consiga achar a história nas "internets".
Everyone: the only people take would ever mistake Portuguese for Russian is someone who has *never* heard Russian.
João: A sua tese sobre as peculiariedades da língua portuguesa no Brasil serem creditadas à influência de línguas de imigrantes não é corroborada por nenhum historiador da língua. E não faz mesmo muito sentido: o Brasil teve mais de 350 anos de história antes que um punhado significativo de italianos aqui pusesse os pés. Lembro-me de ter lido na infância uma anedota sobre Olavo Bilac, na qual o dito cujo refutava um português que se jactava de falar a versão "correta" do idioma. Na anedota, o Bilac usava como argumento a peculiar maneira de os portugueses engolir as vogais. Assim, já no final do século XIX, quando mal chegavam os imigrantes, o falar brasileiro já era bastante distinto do falar europeu.
Pena que não consiga achar a história nas "internets".
Yeah, I'm studying the Portuguese language right now. It's a very beautiful and melodic language. I'm learning the European version at the moment. At the end of the program I'm learning it from, they'll go over differences between European and Brazilian Portuguese.
Paul,I would be grateful if u show me one of these "caprices" of european portuguese that one normal brazilian did not studied in school.
//
Some of them.
Isto é para si. [para você]
Voltem para as vossas casas. [para suas casas or para as casas de vocês]
Não te vou dizer. [não vou te dizer or não vou dizer-te more formally]
Chegar a casa. [chegar em casa, universally accepted by most Brazilian professors]
//
Some of them.
Isto é para si. [para você]
Voltem para as vossas casas. [para suas casas or para as casas de vocês]
Não te vou dizer. [não vou te dizer or não vou dizer-te more formally]
Chegar a casa. [chegar em casa, universally accepted by most Brazilian professors]