I know that the ancestor of Old English was spoken partly in North West Germany, where Low German is now spoken, but I was wondering whether English today is closer to Dutch or to Low German. I have come across both and to me Dutch feels closer and I would like to know if my instinct is right or not.
Relationship between English, Low German and Dutch
they're all the same language
No, actually you are correct. Dutch does seem closer to English despite the fact that Low German is genetically closer to English. The variance has to do with Sprachbunding. Dutch and English have always had contact with each other, and they also share parallel developments such as vowel lengthening and loss of final vowel sounds.
No, actually you are correct. Dutch does seem closer to English despite the fact that Low German is genetically closer to English. The variance has to do with Sprachbunding. Dutch and English have always had contact with each other, and they also share parallel developments such as vowel lengthening and loss of final vowel sounds.
What do you mean "Low German"- Low Saxon of Germany or of the Netherlands? If you mean Low Franconian of Kleve or of Duisburg,then Dutch is standardised variety of Low German too.
Make up your flipping minds guys...Upper Anglo-Saxon of Romney, Low Mancunian, Cleveland or Dewsbury?
Standard written Dutch looks friendlier to English speakers that how they transcribe German dialects in northern Germany, or even Frisian. It's a lot easier to read and puzzle out knowing only very limited Dutch and German. That could make it seem easier. But they're all unintelligible to English speakers in spoken form.
"Dutch does seem closer to English despite the fact that Low German is genetically closer to English"
This has non-sense. Dutch and Low german are the same language (with different dialects). I'm afraid that the "Low German" concept is a pure creation of the prussian power to design the dutch of Northern Germany, in the obviously aim to integrate them in their territory. The elites of Northern Germany have early been germanized by Reformation (see Berlin wille be quick a german language island in the middle of a "dutch sea"), but the low classes continued to speek dutch dialects until the prussian centralization.
So, in fact, northern german are not "low german", but dutch of germany.
For the english, from the most of the studies, they are closer to frisian dialects, but they have been so "francized" in the middle-age that it is a particular case.
This has non-sense. Dutch and Low german are the same language (with different dialects). I'm afraid that the "Low German" concept is a pure creation of the prussian power to design the dutch of Northern Germany, in the obviously aim to integrate them in their territory. The elites of Northern Germany have early been germanized by Reformation (see Berlin wille be quick a german language island in the middle of a "dutch sea"), but the low classes continued to speek dutch dialects until the prussian centralization.
So, in fact, northern german are not "low german", but dutch of germany.
For the english, from the most of the studies, they are closer to frisian dialects, but they have been so "francized" in the middle-age that it is a particular case.
Compare:
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De my na volget, de wandert nicht ir. der dusternisse, spreckt de Here.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Brussels:
Die my volghet hij en wandelt niet in duijsternissen: sprict onse here.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De lere Cristi geyt boven alle lere der hillighen unde de de hedde den gheyst Cristi, de scholde dar vinden dat hemmelsche broet.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Want die leringe Cristi gaet boven alle die leringe der heileghen, ende die den gheest Cristi hadde, hi soude daer in vinden dat hemelsche broet verborgen.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Wat batet dy dattu disputeredest van der hogen hilgen drevoldicheyt, is dattu bist sunder othmodicheyt, wor umme du mishagest der hillighen drevoldicheyt?
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Wat batet di toe disputieren ende toe ondersoeken hoge dinge vander hiliger drievoldicheit, ist dattu darveste rechte oetmoedicheit, waer van du mishageste der selver hiliger drievoldicheit?
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Hoghe worde en maken den minschen nicht hillich unde gherechtich, mer dat dogentlike levent maket den minschen Gode leeff.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Waerleec, hoghe worde en maken niet den mensche heilich ende gherechtich, maer doechdeleec leven maecten Gode werdich.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt der idelheyt unde alle syn se idel sunder God leeff to hebbende unde dem allene tho denende.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Idelheit der ydelheit ende alle dinghen ydelheit, sonder Gode te minnen ende hem alleen te dienen.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Dyt is de hogeste wisheyt: de werlt to vorsmande unde hemmelsche dinge to begerende.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Dit es doverste wijsheit: bi verscmaetheit der werelt te treckene tot den hemelschen rijcheiden.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt is de begerlicheyt des vleysches to volgen unde dat to begerende, dar men hir na moet swarliken umme ghepiniget werden
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Het is ydelheit den begeerten des vleisches toe volgen ende dat toe begegeren, daer men hier namaels swaerlic om gepijnt moet werden.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt is lange levent to begerende unde dat gude levent nicht
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Het is ydelheit lange leven toe begeren ende van goeden leven luttel toe achten.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Sette dy erst tovrede, so kanstu anderlude maken to vrede.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Sette di selven eerst in vreden ende dan so salstu ander lude te vreden maken.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Eyn vredesam mynsche batet mer wen eyn ghelart man
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Een vredesam mensche die batet meer dan een wal geleert mensche.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Sone, wandere by my yn der warheyt unde soke my alle tid yn des herten simpelheit!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Sone, wander voer mi inder waerheit ende in sympelheit dijns herten so sueke mi altoes.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Dencke dyner sunde myt groter misheghelicheit unde moyenisse, unde rekene dy nummer dat du wat sist dorch dyne werke!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Dencke dijn sunden mit groten mishaghen ende droefnisse, ende nummermeer en rekene di wat te wesen om dijnre gueder werke wil
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De ewighe warheit de behaghe dy boven alle dingk, dyn lecheit mishaghe dy to allen tyden!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Gaesdonck:
Die ewige waerheit behaget di boven alle dinck. Ende dijn snoetheit myshage di ten allen tiden.
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/thom001ccde01_01/thom001ccde01_01_0016.php
Middle Low Saxon (Low "German") and Middle Low Franconian ( Middle "Dutch") were two dialectal groups of one Middle Low German language.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De my na volget, de wandert nicht ir. der dusternisse, spreckt de Here.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Brussels:
Die my volghet hij en wandelt niet in duijsternissen: sprict onse here.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De lere Cristi geyt boven alle lere der hillighen unde de de hedde den gheyst Cristi, de scholde dar vinden dat hemmelsche broet.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Want die leringe Cristi gaet boven alle die leringe der heileghen, ende die den gheest Cristi hadde, hi soude daer in vinden dat hemelsche broet verborgen.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Wat batet dy dattu disputeredest van der hogen hilgen drevoldicheyt, is dattu bist sunder othmodicheyt, wor umme du mishagest der hillighen drevoldicheyt?
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Wat batet di toe disputieren ende toe ondersoeken hoge dinge vander hiliger drievoldicheit, ist dattu darveste rechte oetmoedicheit, waer van du mishageste der selver hiliger drievoldicheit?
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Hoghe worde en maken den minschen nicht hillich unde gherechtich, mer dat dogentlike levent maket den minschen Gode leeff.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Waerleec, hoghe worde en maken niet den mensche heilich ende gherechtich, maer doechdeleec leven maecten Gode werdich.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt der idelheyt unde alle syn se idel sunder God leeff to hebbende unde dem allene tho denende.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Idelheit der ydelheit ende alle dinghen ydelheit, sonder Gode te minnen ende hem alleen te dienen.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Dyt is de hogeste wisheyt: de werlt to vorsmande unde hemmelsche dinge to begerende.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Leiden:
Dit es doverste wijsheit: bi verscmaetheit der werelt te treckene tot den hemelschen rijcheiden.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt is de begerlicheyt des vleysches to volgen unde dat to begerende, dar men hir na moet swarliken umme ghepiniget werden
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Het is ydelheit den begeerten des vleisches toe volgen ende dat toe begegeren, daer men hier namaels swaerlic om gepijnt moet werden.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Idelheyt is lange levent to begerende unde dat gude levent nicht
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Het is ydelheit lange leven toe begeren ende van goeden leven luttel toe achten.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Sette dy erst tovrede, so kanstu anderlude maken to vrede.
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Sette di selven eerst in vreden ende dan so salstu ander lude te vreden maken.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Eyn vredesam mynsche batet mer wen eyn ghelart man
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Een vredesam mensche die batet meer dan een wal geleert mensche.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Sone, wandere by my yn der warheyt unde soke my alle tid yn des herten simpelheit!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Sone, wander voer mi inder waerheit ende in sympelheit dijns herten so sueke mi altoes.
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
Dencke dyner sunde myt groter misheghelicheit unde moyenisse, unde rekene dy nummer dat du wat sist dorch dyne werke!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Deventer:
Dencke dijn sunden mit groten mishaghen ende droefnisse, ende nummermeer en rekene di wat te wesen om dijnre gueder werke wil
MIDDLE LOW GERMAN(SAXON)Lübeck:
De ewighe warheit de behaghe dy boven alle dingk, dyn lecheit mishaghe dy to allen tyden!
MIDDLE DUTCH(LOW FRANCONIAN)Gaesdonck:
Die ewige waerheit behaget di boven alle dinck. Ende dijn snoetheit myshage di ten allen tiden.
http://www.dbnl.org/tekst/thom001ccde01_01/thom001ccde01_01_0016.php
Middle Low Saxon (Low "German") and Middle Low Franconian ( Middle "Dutch") were two dialectal groups of one Middle Low German language.
Sorry, perhaps Deventer was in mixed Middle Low Saxon-Middle Low Franconian area ( Achterhoeks),but Leiden,Gaasdonk and Brussels were in pure Middle Low Franconian area.
"This has non-sense. Dutch and Low german are the same language (with different dialects). I'm afraid that the "Low German" concept is a pure creation of the prussian power to design the dutch of Northern Germany,"
Very pertinent...
Very pertinent...