Only 10 million people speak Swedish.
Don't even bother learning it.
I'm Swedish myself.
Don't even bother learning it.
I'm Swedish myself.
Sweet Swedish
@gvn
The 15/16 are Norwegian.
It has been said that Norwegian is Danish spoken with a Swedish accent. While we lexically have been most influenced by Danish, Norwegian phonology and intonation (NB pitch tonal accent!) is very close to Swedish. Grammar is almost identical in all Scandinavian languages.
Due to heavy Swedish media exposure Norwegians understand Swedish as well as (in some cases even better) than some Norwegian dialects!
The 15/16 are Norwegian.
It has been said that Norwegian is Danish spoken with a Swedish accent. While we lexically have been most influenced by Danish, Norwegian phonology and intonation (NB pitch tonal accent!) is very close to Swedish. Grammar is almost identical in all Scandinavian languages.
Due to heavy Swedish media exposure Norwegians understand Swedish as well as (in some cases even better) than some Norwegian dialects!
I wish that my language is also mutually intelligible to other nearby countries of my homeland like yours in scandinavian countries. Though our language has Spanish and indo-malay influences.
Kjell-Gustav Vasa
In truth, I think that my American ears love the sound of the Norwegian language more than the Swedish language.
I think that both languages sound very nice. But the Norwegian language sounds more familiar to me than the Swedish language. I do not know how to explain my feeling.
The sounds of the Norwegian language are easier for me to pronounce. The sounds of Swedish are very difficult for me.
I will not lie. I would rather learn the Norwegian language, but there are not many learning materials for the Norwegian language. I wrote an e-mail to a Norwegian language teacher at the University of Michigan. She is from Oslo, and now she teaches at the university. I told her that I wanted to learn Norwegian. She said that there are no textbooks for the Norwegian language. She makes her own teaching materials and gives them to the students.
She told me it is easier to learn the Swedish language because there are more resources. In fact, she teaches the Swedish language and not the Norwegian language. :-(
I know there are more Swedish speakers than Norwegian speakers.
Do you think Norwegian is dying?
Do you think Norway will try to increase the numbers of speakers?
And M...
I know there are not many speakers, but I still want to learn.
If I learned a language because of the number of speakers, then I would never learn a language. For example...there are millions of French and Spanish speakers in this world. But there are zero speakers of these languages near me. This means that I would have to travel (or internet) to use these languages. So, the numbers really don't mean a thing because they are all in an equal situation for me. It is the same distance and price to travel to France and Mexico as it is to travel to Sweden.
Why not learn a language that I have a family connection to, and I have an active interest in?
In truth, I think that my American ears love the sound of the Norwegian language more than the Swedish language.
I think that both languages sound very nice. But the Norwegian language sounds more familiar to me than the Swedish language. I do not know how to explain my feeling.
The sounds of the Norwegian language are easier for me to pronounce. The sounds of Swedish are very difficult for me.
I will not lie. I would rather learn the Norwegian language, but there are not many learning materials for the Norwegian language. I wrote an e-mail to a Norwegian language teacher at the University of Michigan. She is from Oslo, and now she teaches at the university. I told her that I wanted to learn Norwegian. She said that there are no textbooks for the Norwegian language. She makes her own teaching materials and gives them to the students.
She told me it is easier to learn the Swedish language because there are more resources. In fact, she teaches the Swedish language and not the Norwegian language. :-(
I know there are more Swedish speakers than Norwegian speakers.
Do you think Norwegian is dying?
Do you think Norway will try to increase the numbers of speakers?
And M...
I know there are not many speakers, but I still want to learn.
If I learned a language because of the number of speakers, then I would never learn a language. For example...there are millions of French and Spanish speakers in this world. But there are zero speakers of these languages near me. This means that I would have to travel (or internet) to use these languages. So, the numbers really don't mean a thing because they are all in an equal situation for me. It is the same distance and price to travel to France and Mexico as it is to travel to Sweden.
Why not learn a language that I have a family connection to, and I have an active interest in?
@gvn:
>>In truth, I think that my American ears love the sound of the Norwegian language more than the Swedish language. I think that both languages sound very nice.<<
The strange thing is that Norwegians think Swedish sounds cute, while the Swedes think Norwegian sounds up-beat!
>>The sounds of the Norwegian language are easier for me to pronounce. The sounds of Swedish are very difficult for me.<<
It IS rather startling to realize that Swedish has several sounds that are not found in West European languages, but Asian ones further east.
Be aware of that Swedish has several dialects with phonology more closer to the neighbour languages, for historical reasons.
- Finland-Swedish shares traits with Finnish. (E.g. lack of tonal pitch accent. Since this is extremely difficult to learn for foreigners, they will sound more or less Finnish to Swedish ears.)
- Scanian shares traits with Danish. (E.g. uvular r.)
- West Swedish dialects (e.g. värmlandska, bohuslänska, jämtska etc.) share some traits with Norwegian.
>>She said that there are no textbooks for the Norwegian language.<<
Perhaps not published in the US, but I know there are Norwegian textbooks published for foreigners in Norway.
>>Do you think Norwegian is dying?<<
Yes, on a long-term basis it's probably succumbing to English.
>>Do you think Norway will try to increase the numbers of speakers?<<
No, how would we do that?
>>In truth, I think that my American ears love the sound of the Norwegian language more than the Swedish language. I think that both languages sound very nice.<<
The strange thing is that Norwegians think Swedish sounds cute, while the Swedes think Norwegian sounds up-beat!
>>The sounds of the Norwegian language are easier for me to pronounce. The sounds of Swedish are very difficult for me.<<
It IS rather startling to realize that Swedish has several sounds that are not found in West European languages, but Asian ones further east.
Be aware of that Swedish has several dialects with phonology more closer to the neighbour languages, for historical reasons.
- Finland-Swedish shares traits with Finnish. (E.g. lack of tonal pitch accent. Since this is extremely difficult to learn for foreigners, they will sound more or less Finnish to Swedish ears.)
- Scanian shares traits with Danish. (E.g. uvular r.)
- West Swedish dialects (e.g. värmlandska, bohuslänska, jämtska etc.) share some traits with Norwegian.
>>She said that there are no textbooks for the Norwegian language.<<
Perhaps not published in the US, but I know there are Norwegian textbooks published for foreigners in Norway.
>>Do you think Norwegian is dying?<<
Yes, on a long-term basis it's probably succumbing to English.
>>Do you think Norway will try to increase the numbers of speakers?<<
No, how would we do that?
Kjell-Gustav Vasa
There are Norwegian books for foreigners in Norway?
I would love to know more about this. Do you know, or could you recommend any titles? I would love to take a look at them. The primary reason I am choosing Swedish over Norwegian is that I just can't find any good learning materials.
I do not know a lot about the two languages yet, but when I listen to both Swedish and Norwegian radio stations on the internet, they really do not sound very similar to me. I think it is amazing that people say they can easily understand each other. I think that if I was fluent in one of the languages, I might be able to hear similar words and get the basic meaning of the sentence...but as a complete stranger to the language I would not think they were very similar.
I will agree with the upbeat comment.
It is true that there are not many speakers of Norwegian. The internet says there are only 5 million or a little more.
But this is not a bad thing. It could be worse! ;)
For example, Ireland has a population of 6 million people. They claim that the Irish language is their first and official language. The Irish government says that over a million people can speak the Irish language, but the experts say that less than 100,000 people can fluently speak the language or use it on a daily basis. This is a serious problem...LOL
I think that the reason both Norwegian and Swedish have small numbers is because the world does not really know anything about them.
I think that more people would learn and love the language if they had more exposure to it. For example, I have Swedish origins and I come from a town in Iowa that was settled by the Swedish in the 1800s. But I only recently really sat down and heard the Swedish language. As soon as I heard how beautiful it was, I wanted to learn. And when I heard Norwegian for the first time, I thought...now this is a language I can see myself speaking.
Norway and Sweden combined do not have the population to influence language popularity. This is true.
English has gained favor in both countries for many reasons, but it can also lose favor also.
I do not think that English is so popular because Norwegians and Swedish feel it is a better language. I think that English is growing because it has been the language of economics and entertainment for too long.
If Norwegian people are given an option between two languages, and they chose one language over the other, then there is a strength or appeal to this language that the other language does not have.
If Norway can illustrate or create an equal appeal to the Norwegian language, then more Norwegians may select Norwegian over English.
I think a good start is the media and the entertainment industry.
I know there is Norwegian music and film. But is there enough? If the majority of the music and film is in another language, then the primary social influencers of the modern era are not in Norwegian. I know this seems like a little thing, but the "image" of a language is very important. If people feel that Norwegian is a pointless language, then they will not speak it. If people think it is a contemporary language, then they will give it more importance.
How much education in Norway is conducted in English?
I mean people do not just magically start speaking a foreign language; they have to be learning it from some place?
Are Norwegian schools teaching 50/50 Norwegian and English?
This is also very important. The language we are raised in is going to be the language we default to. Perhaps it would be in the interest of preserving and promoting Norwegian to teach in Norwegian only?
I am not suggesting anything. These are just some of the issues that I have seen with the Irish language revival efforts, and they are very import.
There are Norwegian books for foreigners in Norway?
I would love to know more about this. Do you know, or could you recommend any titles? I would love to take a look at them. The primary reason I am choosing Swedish over Norwegian is that I just can't find any good learning materials.
I do not know a lot about the two languages yet, but when I listen to both Swedish and Norwegian radio stations on the internet, they really do not sound very similar to me. I think it is amazing that people say they can easily understand each other. I think that if I was fluent in one of the languages, I might be able to hear similar words and get the basic meaning of the sentence...but as a complete stranger to the language I would not think they were very similar.
I will agree with the upbeat comment.
It is true that there are not many speakers of Norwegian. The internet says there are only 5 million or a little more.
But this is not a bad thing. It could be worse! ;)
For example, Ireland has a population of 6 million people. They claim that the Irish language is their first and official language. The Irish government says that over a million people can speak the Irish language, but the experts say that less than 100,000 people can fluently speak the language or use it on a daily basis. This is a serious problem...LOL
I think that the reason both Norwegian and Swedish have small numbers is because the world does not really know anything about them.
I think that more people would learn and love the language if they had more exposure to it. For example, I have Swedish origins and I come from a town in Iowa that was settled by the Swedish in the 1800s. But I only recently really sat down and heard the Swedish language. As soon as I heard how beautiful it was, I wanted to learn. And when I heard Norwegian for the first time, I thought...now this is a language I can see myself speaking.
Norway and Sweden combined do not have the population to influence language popularity. This is true.
English has gained favor in both countries for many reasons, but it can also lose favor also.
I do not think that English is so popular because Norwegians and Swedish feel it is a better language. I think that English is growing because it has been the language of economics and entertainment for too long.
If Norwegian people are given an option between two languages, and they chose one language over the other, then there is a strength or appeal to this language that the other language does not have.
If Norway can illustrate or create an equal appeal to the Norwegian language, then more Norwegians may select Norwegian over English.
I think a good start is the media and the entertainment industry.
I know there is Norwegian music and film. But is there enough? If the majority of the music and film is in another language, then the primary social influencers of the modern era are not in Norwegian. I know this seems like a little thing, but the "image" of a language is very important. If people feel that Norwegian is a pointless language, then they will not speak it. If people think it is a contemporary language, then they will give it more importance.
How much education in Norway is conducted in English?
I mean people do not just magically start speaking a foreign language; they have to be learning it from some place?
Are Norwegian schools teaching 50/50 Norwegian and English?
This is also very important. The language we are raised in is going to be the language we default to. Perhaps it would be in the interest of preserving and promoting Norwegian to teach in Norwegian only?
I am not suggesting anything. These are just some of the issues that I have seen with the Irish language revival efforts, and they are very import.
@gvn:
>>There are Norwegian books for foreigners in Norway?
I would love to know more about this. Do you know, or could you recommend any titles? I would love to take a look at them. The primary reason I am choosing Swedish over Norwegian is that I just can't find any good learning materials.<<
I can't recommend any personally, but just by googling "Norwegian for beginners" I came across a lot of books. E.g. http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Norwegian-2-Audio-CDs/dp/0781810434
Of course it will take a lot for Norwegian to actually die out in Norway, but what probably will happen is diglossia by ways of "loss of domains" to English. English will become the language of business, higher education / research and high-brow culture. Norwegian will be a "kitchen tongue" reserved for informal situations, local interaction and the intimate sphere. Quite likely it will remain the language of national politics, the state bureaucracy, the church and criminal law. The media will probably be diglossic: International and business news will be in English, local news in Norwegian.
In many ways similar to the Latin/French versus English diglossia in Norman England or the French/German versus Russian diglossia in Tsarist Russia.
>>There are Norwegian books for foreigners in Norway?
I would love to know more about this. Do you know, or could you recommend any titles? I would love to take a look at them. The primary reason I am choosing Swedish over Norwegian is that I just can't find any good learning materials.<<
I can't recommend any personally, but just by googling "Norwegian for beginners" I came across a lot of books. E.g. http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Norwegian-2-Audio-CDs/dp/0781810434
Of course it will take a lot for Norwegian to actually die out in Norway, but what probably will happen is diglossia by ways of "loss of domains" to English. English will become the language of business, higher education / research and high-brow culture. Norwegian will be a "kitchen tongue" reserved for informal situations, local interaction and the intimate sphere. Quite likely it will remain the language of national politics, the state bureaucracy, the church and criminal law. The media will probably be diglossic: International and business news will be in English, local news in Norwegian.
In many ways similar to the Latin/French versus English diglossia in Norman England or the French/German versus Russian diglossia in Tsarist Russia.
LOL, I forgot the most obvious example of diglossia:
The Low/High German/Danish versus Norwegian dialects diglossia that ruled supreme from the Late Middle Ages untill a century ago!
Of course it was of a bit different character, inasmuch as Norwegian was purely oral then, but that with regard to the Danish/Norwegian diglossia, they were mutually intelligible with a little training.
The Low/High German/Danish versus Norwegian dialects diglossia that ruled supreme from the Late Middle Ages untill a century ago!
Of course it was of a bit different character, inasmuch as Norwegian was purely oral then, but that with regard to the Danish/Norwegian diglossia, they were mutually intelligible with a little training.
@gvn:
Norwegians don't start using English simply because it's "cool". ("Kul", /kʉ:l/ in Norwegian, BTW.) It's because they work together with foreigners in the workplace (e.g. in the oil and gas industry, which is huge in Norway), because they hire Polish people to paint their house, because they research and write their university thesis in English, because they study abroad, because they buy holiday homes in Thailand etc. That's what makes them active English users, while consuming pop culture and TV shows in English only makes them passive English users.
Norwegians don't start using English simply because it's "cool". ("Kul", /kʉ:l/ in Norwegian, BTW.) It's because they work together with foreigners in the workplace (e.g. in the oil and gas industry, which is huge in Norway), because they hire Polish people to paint their house, because they research and write their university thesis in English, because they study abroad, because they buy holiday homes in Thailand etc. That's what makes them active English users, while consuming pop culture and TV shows in English only makes them passive English users.
Kjell-Gustav Vasa...
LOL...I wasn't implying that Norwegians and Swedish people speak English because it's cool.
I meant that a positive image is very important, and it is more important for people who might want to learn the language.
For example, it is understandable that there might not be a lot of minority language films in this world. The cost of production and lack of audience is a very big hurdle. However, the Germans have a very unique method for dealing with the lack of a large German film industry. They translate all foreign films into the German language. This way they get the films that people want to see, and can still actively promote the German language at a fraction of the cost.
I have to admit, it is pretty clever to be able to create a German language version of a major movie like Lord of the Rings for a fraction of the cost.
I think that if I was able to help any language out...this would be one method would be used.
In some ways, Swedish takes this approach with music. I have seen many songs on youtube that were translated into Swedish and they sound wonderful.
Maybe Norwegian can do the same?
Just another thought.
I will take a look for at that website later tonight thanks.
LOL...I wasn't implying that Norwegians and Swedish people speak English because it's cool.
I meant that a positive image is very important, and it is more important for people who might want to learn the language.
For example, it is understandable that there might not be a lot of minority language films in this world. The cost of production and lack of audience is a very big hurdle. However, the Germans have a very unique method for dealing with the lack of a large German film industry. They translate all foreign films into the German language. This way they get the films that people want to see, and can still actively promote the German language at a fraction of the cost.
I have to admit, it is pretty clever to be able to create a German language version of a major movie like Lord of the Rings for a fraction of the cost.
I think that if I was able to help any language out...this would be one method would be used.
In some ways, Swedish takes this approach with music. I have seen many songs on youtube that were translated into Swedish and they sound wonderful.
Maybe Norwegian can do the same?
Just another thought.
I will take a look for at that website later tonight thanks.
@gvn:
>>For example, it is understandable that there might not be a lot of minority language films in this world. The cost of production and lack of audience is a very big hurdle. However, the Germans have a very unique method for dealing with the lack of a large German film industry. They translate all foreign films into the German language. This way they get the films that people want to see, and can still actively promote the German language at a fraction of the cost.<<
You mean dubbing? Well, I can see your point about how it reduces Germans' exposure to English can be a good thing for combatting the influence of English, but it also means that Germans are much worse at English than for example the Dutch and Scandinavians, where there is no dubbing. It also means that e.g. Scandinavian movies are dubbed, so Germans don't get the opportunity to listen to these neighbour languages. And often the dubbing is done in ways that irritates and distracts from the artistic quality of a movie. As you can see I have a typically Scandinavian distaste of dubbing!
>>For example, it is understandable that there might not be a lot of minority language films in this world. The cost of production and lack of audience is a very big hurdle. However, the Germans have a very unique method for dealing with the lack of a large German film industry. They translate all foreign films into the German language. This way they get the films that people want to see, and can still actively promote the German language at a fraction of the cost.<<
You mean dubbing? Well, I can see your point about how it reduces Germans' exposure to English can be a good thing for combatting the influence of English, but it also means that Germans are much worse at English than for example the Dutch and Scandinavians, where there is no dubbing. It also means that e.g. Scandinavian movies are dubbed, so Germans don't get the opportunity to listen to these neighbour languages. And often the dubbing is done in ways that irritates and distracts from the artistic quality of a movie. As you can see I have a typically Scandinavian distaste of dubbing!
I think a good via media is à la the program I am watching on Norwegian state TV as I write this: It's the Dutch 20th-century history series "In Europa: reizen door de twintigste eeuw". The commentary which originally must have been in Dutch is read by a Norwegian, but the utterances of the interview objects (in this episode a French man) are left in the original and subtitled in Norwegian.
Kjell-Gustav Vasa...
I was talking about dubbing, but I did not mean that we should use dubbing as a means to separate English influence. In truth, I have no problem with Norway and Sweden being multi-lingual.
It makes it easier for me to be an English speaker when I visit ;-)
I meant that by dubbing popular film, music, or other popular culture into Norwegian and Swedish, there is potential for greater exposure to the languages that could help stimulate interest in the languages.
I am confident that there are many people in this world who would absolutely love to learn Norwegian and Swedish if they knew it existed. Or if they knew that if they learned these languages, that there would be some ability to use them outside of Norway and Sweden.
I think this is one of the many hurdles of any minority language. People who want to learn them are limited in their ability to actually speak or use them. If there was a greater potential for usage, perhaps there would also be a greater audience wanted to use it.
While I am thinking about it...
How do you say "What nourishes me, destroys me" in Norwegian?
This is an old Latin quote, but I saw that it is becoming a popular tattoo quote after Angelina Jolie got it put on her body.
Can this be translated into Norwegian?
I was talking about dubbing, but I did not mean that we should use dubbing as a means to separate English influence. In truth, I have no problem with Norway and Sweden being multi-lingual.
It makes it easier for me to be an English speaker when I visit ;-)
I meant that by dubbing popular film, music, or other popular culture into Norwegian and Swedish, there is potential for greater exposure to the languages that could help stimulate interest in the languages.
I am confident that there are many people in this world who would absolutely love to learn Norwegian and Swedish if they knew it existed. Or if they knew that if they learned these languages, that there would be some ability to use them outside of Norway and Sweden.
I think this is one of the many hurdles of any minority language. People who want to learn them are limited in their ability to actually speak or use them. If there was a greater potential for usage, perhaps there would also be a greater audience wanted to use it.
While I am thinking about it...
How do you say "What nourishes me, destroys me" in Norwegian?
This is an old Latin quote, but I saw that it is becoming a popular tattoo quote after Angelina Jolie got it put on her body.
Can this be translated into Norwegian?
@gvn:
Yes, I think it's a great idea if the US imported all new Nordic movies and just subtitled them! :-)
>>How do you say "What nourishes me, destroys me" in Norwegian?<<
Bokmål: Det som (er)nærer* meg, ødelegger meg.
Nynorsk: Det som (er)nærar* meg, øydelegg meg.
* "Nærer / nærar" is rather archaïc, "ernærer / ernærar" more modern, but it smacks more of nutrition than nourishment.
In this case the Swedish translation is more concise and short, thus closer to the catchy latin original "”Quod me nutrit, me destruit":
Det som när mig, förgör mig.
BTW "förgör" is an example of a Swedish word I only understood out of the context, when I looked it up. I think it too is rather archaïc. "Förstör" is the modern equivalent, but smakcs more of "messes up".
Yes, I think it's a great idea if the US imported all new Nordic movies and just subtitled them! :-)
>>How do you say "What nourishes me, destroys me" in Norwegian?<<
Bokmål: Det som (er)nærer* meg, ødelegger meg.
Nynorsk: Det som (er)nærar* meg, øydelegg meg.
* "Nærer / nærar" is rather archaïc, "ernærer / ernærar" more modern, but it smacks more of nutrition than nourishment.
In this case the Swedish translation is more concise and short, thus closer to the catchy latin original "”Quod me nutrit, me destruit":
Det som när mig, förgör mig.
BTW "förgör" is an example of a Swedish word I only understood out of the context, when I looked it up. I think it too is rather archaïc. "Förstör" is the modern equivalent, but smakcs more of "messes up".