An infinitive is something most of us take for granted. In Albanian the infinitive doesn't even exist. I have no clue how such languages work though.
Grammatically complex languages
They have to have another way to express infinitive, just like German which lacks -ing ending but that does not mean you can't express a progressive action.
Portuguese seems pretty tough, but I'm sure there's much harder languages out there. I agree the Romanian verb system is rather simplified in its current form.
For example, the word 'to say':
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zice
Some forms like the simple and pluperfect, interestingly, are actually used more regionally, such as in Oltenia vs the capital Bucharest, and people may be considered sort of a peasant or hick for using them, even though they are technically grammatically correct. Some areas also use certain verb forms that are more archaic and uncommon in daily use. Once you get the hang of it, it's not difficult to use it to express yourself, though. Plurals can be irregular sometimes, occasionally changing the stem of the word, but it's not too much harder.
But I agree, Slavic languages can be difficult for those unfamiliar with them. And Greek as well, though I want to learn it. It has changed from Ancient Greek about as much as the Romance languages have from Latin, so it isn't quite the same.
For example, the word 'to say':
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zice
Some forms like the simple and pluperfect, interestingly, are actually used more regionally, such as in Oltenia vs the capital Bucharest, and people may be considered sort of a peasant or hick for using them, even though they are technically grammatically correct. Some areas also use certain verb forms that are more archaic and uncommon in daily use. Once you get the hang of it, it's not difficult to use it to express yourself, though. Plurals can be irregular sometimes, occasionally changing the stem of the word, but it's not too much harder.
But I agree, Slavic languages can be difficult for those unfamiliar with them. And Greek as well, though I want to learn it. It has changed from Ancient Greek about as much as the Romance languages have from Latin, so it isn't quite the same.
<<An infinitive is something most of us take for granted. In Albanian the infinitive doesn't even exist. I have no clue how such languages work though.>>
Does English have a true, inflected infinitive? Doesn't it use "to xxxx" and "xxxxing" where other languages use an authentic infinitive.
Does English have a true, inflected infinitive? Doesn't it use "to xxxx" and "xxxxing" where other languages use an authentic infinitive.
Does English have a true, inflected infinitive? Doesn't it use "to xxxx" and "xxxxing" where other languages use an authentic
Not at all. No other Indo.European language has an inflected infinitive..
para eu cantar
para tu cantares
para el cantar
para nos cantarmos
para eles cantarem
Not at all. No other Indo.European language has an inflected infinitive..
para eu cantar
para tu cantares
para el cantar
para nos cantarmos
para eles cantarem
para eu te dizer = para decirte = to tell you
digo-te = te digo = I tell you
nao quero que me digas= no quiero que me digas = I don't want you to tell me
dir-te-ei = te diré = I shall tell you
pu-lo = lo puse = I put it
puseram-no = lo pusieron = they put it
tinha dito = habia dicho = they had said
havia dito = habia dicho = they had said
dissera = haBia dicho = they had said
vou dizer = voy a decir = I'm going to say
hei-de dizer = voy a decir = I'm going to say
direi = diré
fa-lo-ia = lo haria = I would do that
enviar-to-ei = te lo enviaré = I'll send it to you
quando puder = cuando pueda = when I can
These are just some examples
And now some examples of inflected infinitive:
Ficamos em casa do Joao ao irMOS ao Porto
Quedaremos en casa de Juan (al ir) cuando vayamos a Porto
We are staying at John's when we go to OPorto
Comprei-te um livro para o lerES
I bought you a book for you to read
digo-te = te digo = I tell you
nao quero que me digas= no quiero que me digas = I don't want you to tell me
dir-te-ei = te diré = I shall tell you
pu-lo = lo puse = I put it
puseram-no = lo pusieron = they put it
tinha dito = habia dicho = they had said
havia dito = habia dicho = they had said
dissera = haBia dicho = they had said
vou dizer = voy a decir = I'm going to say
hei-de dizer = voy a decir = I'm going to say
direi = diré
fa-lo-ia = lo haria = I would do that
enviar-to-ei = te lo enviaré = I'll send it to you
quando puder = cuando pueda = when I can
These are just some examples
And now some examples of inflected infinitive:
Ficamos em casa do Joao ao irMOS ao Porto
Quedaremos en casa de Juan (al ir) cuando vayamos a Porto
We are staying at John's when we go to OPorto
Comprei-te um livro para o lerES
I bought you a book for you to read
An infinitive is something most of us take for granted. In Albanian the infinitive doesn't even exist. I have no clue how such languages work though.
Most Balkan languages lack the infinitive: Albanian, Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian... They belong to different groups of languages but do share some common features....
Most Balkan languages lack the infinitive: Albanian, Greek, Romanian, Bulgarian... They belong to different groups of languages but do share some common features....
Whats the point of having the most complex verbal system and many vowels if most americans when go to portugal just speak spanish or speak a bunch of disordered spanish words and pronounce every word like it were a spanish one?
They pronounce 'orelha' like 'órélla' and not like 'uralh'
or 'pão' like 'pau'.
And every portuguese can understand.
Me gusta muito o idioma português. Entenderam?
They pronounce 'orelha' like 'órélla' and not like 'uralh'
or 'pão' like 'pau'.
And every portuguese can understand.
Me gusta muito o idioma português. Entenderam?
No other Indo.European language has an inflected infinitive..
brazilian portuguese does not have inflected infinitive:
para eu fazer
para tu/você fazer
para ele/ela fazer
para a gente fazer
pra vocês fazer
pra eles fazer
compare with English
for me to do
for you to do
for him to do
for us to do
for you to do
for them to do
Brazilian infinitive is as inflected as the English one
or dialectal Spanish: para yo decir esto (for me to say that)
common in Puerto Rico, Peru and Velezuela
brazilian portuguese does not have inflected infinitive:
para eu fazer
para tu/você fazer
para ele/ela fazer
para a gente fazer
pra vocês fazer
pra eles fazer
compare with English
for me to do
for you to do
for him to do
for us to do
for you to do
for them to do
Brazilian infinitive is as inflected as the English one
or dialectal Spanish: para yo decir esto (for me to say that)
common in Puerto Rico, Peru and Velezuela
"
para eu fazer
para tu/você fazer
para ele/ela fazer
para a gente fazer
pra vocês fazer
pra eles fazer
"
Whats is this?
para eu fazer
para tu/você fazer
para ele/ela fazer
para a gente fazer
pra vocês fazer
pra eles fazer
"
Whats is this?
Spoken Brazilian may lack the inflected infinitive but the standard language in Brazil is Continental Portuguese because in Brazil there is diglossia just like in Swizerland. But spoken Brazilian Portuguese (BP) and written BP (similar to spoken EP) are said by linguists:
''Spoken BP and EP are structured by two distinct grammars''
source:
Sociolinguistics: an international handbook of the science Volume 3
By Ulrich Ammon, Norbert Dittmar, Klaus J. Mattheier, Peter Trudgill
quote is easily searchable on Google books
---
BP = Brazilian Portuguese
EP = European Portuguese
Issues connected with standardization
''So-called -teaching of Portuguese-, paradoxically
termed -teaching of the mother tongue-, is required in Brazil
even for students who have BP as L1. Underlying this paradox is
the fact that school grammars follow certain European Portuguese norms that are absent from even literary and technical texts in contemporary
Brazil. Since EP constitutes a purely imaginary norm, many Brazilians
hold their speech in low esteem, as is evident in the common feeling that “we don’t know how to speak our own language”. The standard
language has more to do with social class than with context.''
Grammatical complexity of Portuguese has lead to its simplification in Brazilian speech so there is diglossia in Brazil, they have one ''simplified'' grammar for speech, and archaic formal Continental Grammar for formal writing. That's why Brazilian soap operas feature incorrect/substandard Brazilian Portuguese while Mexican soap operas feature 100% standard Mexican Spanish.
''Spoken BP and EP are structured by two distinct grammars''
source:
Sociolinguistics: an international handbook of the science Volume 3
By Ulrich Ammon, Norbert Dittmar, Klaus J. Mattheier, Peter Trudgill
quote is easily searchable on Google books
---
BP = Brazilian Portuguese
EP = European Portuguese
Issues connected with standardization
''So-called -teaching of Portuguese-, paradoxically
termed -teaching of the mother tongue-, is required in Brazil
even for students who have BP as L1. Underlying this paradox is
the fact that school grammars follow certain European Portuguese norms that are absent from even literary and technical texts in contemporary
Brazil. Since EP constitutes a purely imaginary norm, many Brazilians
hold their speech in low esteem, as is evident in the common feeling that “we don’t know how to speak our own language”. The standard
language has more to do with social class than with context.''
Grammatical complexity of Portuguese has lead to its simplification in Brazilian speech so there is diglossia in Brazil, they have one ''simplified'' grammar for speech, and archaic formal Continental Grammar for formal writing. That's why Brazilian soap operas feature incorrect/substandard Brazilian Portuguese while Mexican soap operas feature 100% standard Mexican Spanish.
I think portuguese, both european and brazilian, is the cheapest latin language.
<<Brazilian infinitive is as inflected as the English one >
But the endish infinitive is just the base form of the verb, with a separate atatched preposition. Other languages have a special form, different than the stem. It almost seems like English doesn't have a real infinitive at all.
But the endish infinitive is just the base form of the verb, with a separate atatched preposition. Other languages have a special form, different than the stem. It almost seems like English doesn't have a real infinitive at all.
new views on Brazilian diglossia:
http://webs.uvigo.es/ssl/actas1997/06/Farias.pdf
http://webs.uvigo.es/ssl/actas1997/06/Farias.pdf