Pronunciation of 'France'

<<Another word (which may or may not exist in American English) would be 'hamlet' — basically a very small village with perhaps only about 20 houses or fewer.>>

"Hamlet" is a word I frequently come across when I'm looking through the real estate ads. It usually describes a cozy little community tucked away in the hills.

I think of "hamlets" and "villages" of being about the same size ... but the real estate in a "hamlet" would cost more! ;)

I would think we have all the same community names in the US as you do in the UK, Benjamin -- but I've heard several British people express this same uncertainty -- is there a reason why? After all, our population densities go from rural to metropolitan, too.

>I must get that picture of medieval style houses with grass roofs, farms, monks with brown rodes, etc. out of my head. [Johannes]

I'm a native speaker of American English, and that's basically the image of a 'village" that I have too, though I realize that the term can be used for modern towns. As Uriel says, it's used in the United States too, though more in some regions than others. Here in South Carolina what you describe would be called a 'small town' or 'very small town' (or any of many humorous metaphors to imply that it's very small). Nowadays I never hear a place here referred to as a 'village', except for modern communities consciously built to look old-fashioned and evoke the image of a traditional European village.

The term was more used in the past, though, and is associated with the colonial period or the early years of the country. For instance, I recall it from a famous poem about the Revolutionary War, Paul Revere's Ride by Henry Wadsworth Longfellow (an American poet who was very popular in the 19th century, though his long narrative poems aren't read much now except sometimes in schools). The rebelling colonists were expecting the British troops, though they didn't know whether they would march in directly by land or move to another area by sea and come in from a different direction. When they were seen approaching, Paul Revere rode his horse from place to place warning the people to take up arms. Here's the beginning of that poem:

Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere,
On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.
He said to his friend, "If the British march
By land or sea from the town to-night,
Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch
Of the North Church tower as a signal light,--
One if by land, and two if by sea;
And I on the opposite shore will be,
Ready to ride and spread the alarm
Through every Middlesex village and farm,
For the country folk to be up and to arm...."

This took place in New England, and I believe that 'village' is still used there more often than it is in some other parts of the United States. Of course, using the British term 'village' now to describe where you live would cause no problems anywhere in the United States, and actually I'd expect a small German town to be called a 'village', especially if it has houses dating back several centuries. If it appeared very modern, I'd understand, but it wouldn't fit my own image of what a village should be.

'Hamlet' can be used for a small town here, but it's not a term that I hear often from ordinary speakers of the language.

The reason Paul Revere's ride is treated as something important is that it led to a skirmish between the troops and the local people, which in turn started the Revolutionary War. Pardon me if, while I'm at it, I go on to add another short poem. This one was written to be placed on a monument at the site of the fighting. It's by Ralph Waldo Emerson. (Those New England writers seemed to like using three names. Nowadays persons with middle names like 'Wadsworth' or 'Waldo' would probably keep them secret. :-) The poem is famous for the line 'And fired the shot heard round the world', which you may come across from time to time.

The Concord Hymn

By the rude bridge that arched the flood,
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled;
Here once the embattled farmers stood;
And fired the shot heard round the world.

The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps,
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream that seaward creeps.

On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We place with joy a votive stone,
That memory may their deeds redeem,
When, like our sires, our sons are gone.

O Thou who made those heroes dare
To die, and leave their children free, --
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raised to them and Thee.

Though a small town (village), Concord, Massachusetts was to be the dwelling place of a good many famous American writers, for instance, Emerson, Thoreau, Hawthorne, and Louisa May Alcott.

Hi Johannes-
Just to say I've noticed the questions, but have no time to write a proper answer at the moment :( I'll post later! :)

Johannes,
Actually if would be quite helpful for you if you had a chance to speak English with some of your German friends. I have a good friend here, who I usually speak English with -- even though our native language is Russian. We have been practising it for many years now, and it's just for fun, we don't do it in order to show off or impress people around -- no, we just practice our language skills, and that really helps!!!
But we were just sort of lucky to find each other, because most people here who even know English well don't really like to speak it if they can speak Russian.
Actually I have another friend here who's crazy about Germany and is keen on speaking German to me -- also just for fun:)

Candy please take your time to answer my questions. I enjoyed talking to you and once again thankyou for taking the time to answer them.

<Actually if would be quite helpful for you if you had a chance to speak English with some of your German friends. I have a good friend here, who I usually speak English with -- even though our native language is Russian>

You are in a lucky position Frank. I myself have found I don't really communciate in English with people of my age outside the classroom setting. Mostly the people who I communciate to using English is older adults. Sometimes I feel this situation has matured me quite alot. I nevered pictured myself visiting neighbours for cups of coffee and a free English lesson over my usual game of football a few years ago.

Gjones2 I came across a couple of 'villages' in the USA and some of them were actually subrubs in a city but had some kind of 'exclusive' theme to it. I saw pictures of them and the houses was mostly identical it reminded me the public estates of England with their identical housing, centre planning, etc.

I just realised this site had another forum for other languages. I was offended by a couple of the messages there and I think I should not attempt to post any messages there. Is there anyway I could contact the people in charge of this site? Do they have any moderators on this site?

<<I just realised this site had another forum for other languages. I was offended by a couple of the messages there and I think I should not attempt to post any messages there.>>

Good idea. That forum is a disaster zone and best avoided.

<<Is there anyway I could contact the people in charge of this site? Do they have any moderators on this site?>>

Yes, but there aren't many and they can be slow in catching up with the spammers and trolls.

<Good idea. That forum is a disaster zone and best avoided.>

Very sad Kirk. I thought I could help with people trying to learn German. After receiving so much help from these people here in this forum with my English I wanted to return the favor.

Johannes, BTW, from my point of view the place where you live should be called a village. Here in my country a settlement where only 500 people live is always called a village -- officially! It means it has a different status...
Actually, this thread was supposed to be about "Pronunciation of France", but nobody seems to discuss it any longer... That's often the case in this forum as far as I can see. As a relative newcomer I like to look through old threads and often see that thread names don't really coincide with actual discussion topics...

>...it reminded me the public estates of England with their identical housing, centre planning, etc. [Johannes]

Come to think of it, I know of an apartment house with 'village' in the name, even though it consists of plain buildings with nothing about it that resembles traditional European villages. I suppose that the name was chosen just to give the apartments some distinction.

>...often see that thread names don't really coincide with actual discussion topics. [Frank]

Yeah, you can be pretty sure that with a title like "Pronunciation of 'France'", by the time the discussion reaches page nine something else is being discussed. :-)

It's natural for one topic to lead to another, though, and meandering discussions are common on most forums. It's not a problem as long as readers keep up with what's being written. For newcomers or for persons who only drop by only occasionally, though, it's hard to know what has been discussed. You may not have any interest in the topics listed on the English or Languages pages, but buried somewhere inside the long discussions may be a treasure -- a topic that interests you greatly. You can look for topics of special interest with the Search feature, but there are many thousands of possible topics, and that's not a practical way to find everything that might interest you.

On another forum I once started a discussion called 'Thread Tracker' that consisted of nothing but posts that mentioned noteworthy topics inside other discussions and that provided links to them. The next post is an example of the kind of post I mean (it's for demonstration purposes -- I haven't checked to see if the linked page is really the first page where those topics were mentioned):

How widespread is knowledge of English among Germans and Russians?
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t1758-105.htm

Meaning of 'village' in the UK and US
http://www.antimoon.com/forum/t1758-105.htm

Of course, for this to work well, you need a good many persons who are willing to take a moment from time to time to go to the Thread Tracker and record the topics that they found interesting. Once this has been done, newcomers and occasional readers can quickly get an idea of which discussions they wish to read merely by skimming through the most recent Thread Tracker posts (and without having to plow through many posts in long discussions that don't interest them).

I must confess that the Thread Tracker didn't last long at the other site, though, just a few weeks. Most of the persons there said that they liked the unpredictability of the current threads. There were just four or five of us who bothered to put listings in the Thread Tracker. With so few of us doing the work, keeping track became a bother, so we didn't keep it up long. I still think it's a good idea, but only if a sufficient number of persons participate in it -- or a sufficient proportion of persons. This forum has fewer posts, so it would take fewer persons to keep track of the topics. (And, of course, the listing doesn't have to be complete. Anything would be better than nothing.)

One disadvantage here is that you can't link directly to the first post that mentions a topic, just to the page on which it occurs. Still, linking to the page would be a great help. Maybe listing the writer or first line in the Thread Tracker would help people find the post on the page itself.

The example in the previous post is just a plain listing. Often we would spice things up with "teasers", that is, tell the topic but leave some mystery, or state it in a slightly provocative way. Also brief quotations of striking statements from the discussion can create interest. Part of the thread actually became a way of giving individuals credit for saying interesting things in the other discussions. The Thread Tracker idea has many good possibilities, but it wasn't implemented well.

Of course, it would be easy to sabotage too, so that would be another problem on a forum such as this with easy access to everybody. For it to work, the rule would probably have to be that only listings would be allowed in that discussion, and the moderators would have to check the discussion occasionally and delete other posts.