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What language is easiest for Spanish Speakers to understand?
(Olá outra vez Joey,
Tenho leído em outro "fio" que tú também falas afrikaans. Vives em Sudáfrica ou por quê aprendiste ista língua? só por curiosidade...
..e uma disculpa pelo meu portuñol, faz muito tempo que não o falo nem o escribou :-))
Nasce na Africa do sul de pais (padres) Portugueses asim tenho (tengo) uma herança de três linguas.
E teu portuñol esta optimo
I wouldn't generalize it, that is just how the separate branches of these langauges evolved. Realize that there are dialects in Europe as well that deviate from the standard we are all using as comparison.
(You must be new to Antimoon. This is gospel here. So yes, the common opinion is that the Eu Portuguese is harsher sounding than Br Portuguese. Some have even compared the sound of Eu Portuguese to Russian while Br Portuguese has been compared to French for its high nasality.)
Normaly the law of thumb is that the Americas tend to speak smother then Europe and Africa tends to be harsher the Europe.
Well Brasil is samba and Portugal is fado that says it all
Portuñol? O concepto de una mista de as linguas Espanholas e Portuguese me interessan. Existem regulas? Ou solo sea mistam las linguas como o falante quere?
««So yes, the common opinion is that the Eu Portuguese is harsher sounding than Br Portuguese.»»
It is correct, Brazilian Portuguese is more melodic.
«« Some have even compared the sound of Eu Portuguese to Russian while Br Portuguese has been compared to French for its high nasality. »»
Brazilian Portuguese is no more nasal than Eu Portuguese, and Brazilian Portuguese is as much mistaken for Russian as Portuguese.
The people of Southern Brazil are often mistaken for being Portuguese European speakers by other Brazilians. Their accent is much close to the European Portuguese than to the ones of Rio or São Paulo. Brazil is not a country of one only accent, you go north, in some regions , they speak so fast that the soft slow rhythm is completely lost.
JR:
Portuñol? O concepto de una mista de as linguas Espanholas e Portuguese me interessan. Existem regulas? Ou solo sea mistam las linguas como o falante quere?
Portunhol is both, with rules and without rules. With rules it is more likely to have a name ( like Barranquenho in Portugal) and be specific of a region, that way it becomes a dialect and there is a big number of them.
http://www.clul.ul.pt/english/sectores/projecto_barranquenho.html
The people of Southern Brazil are often mistaken for being Portuguese European speakers by other Brazilians. Their accent is much close to the European Portuguese than to the ones of Rio or São Paulo. Brazil is not a country of one only accent, you go north, in some regions , they speak so fast that the soft slow rhythm is completely lost.
yeah. All Romance people say TU (You) including Southern Brazil, while the rest of Brazil says "você" and never "TU"
True, i've got many friends from southern brazil here in portugal and they only use Tu and not Voce, which sometimes its weird because im used to brazilian Voce
It is not just the "tu" and other vocabulary they use but also the accent. If you meet someone from Florianópolis SC, the Manézinhos, you will be surprised, they speak with a European Portuguese accent, and a heavy one. Speak with someone of the district of Rio Vermelho, also in Santa Catarina, and you will think you are speaking with a Portuguese. Santa Catarina sounds very European Portuguese, in some places more than others, but whenever I speak with someone from there I always notice the resemblance with the European accent. One has have to be def not to notice.
*correction: One has to be def not to notice.
Hey, I was only passing on what has been said. I do not know enough about either dialect of Portuguese to claim anything as truth.
"It is not just the "tu" and other vocabulary they use but also the accent. If you meet someone from Florianópolis SC, the Manézinhos, you will be surprised, they speak with a European Portuguese accent, and a heavy one. Speak with someone of the district of Rio Vermelho, also in Santa Catarina, and you will think you are speaking with a Portuguese. Santa Catarina sounds very European Portuguese, in some places more than others, but whenever I speak with someone from there I always notice the resemblance with the European accent. One has have to be def not to notice."
Most of my relatives on my Brazilian side are from Santa Catarina. I wouldn't say it sounds more European but it does in some aspects. I think it is even softer than the eu or other Brazilian dialects. They actually roll there "r"'s more than most of the other regions that I heard. There's less of the h sounding r in that region.
JGreco:
It depends where in Santa Catarina you are talking about.
Not every people in Santa Catarina has the same accent. There were Germans, Italians, Portuguese immigrants so, in some places, where the Portuguese immigrants settled in bigger numbers, they kept much of the original Portuguese accent. Santa Catarina has an European accent, in some places more than in others. It goes from a slight European accent to one very close to the European.
"Manezês (ou mané ou manezinho ou sotaque manezinho ou sotaque açoriano) é como é chamado o falar do nativo de Florianópolis, capital de Santa Catarina, Brasil. O manezês também é ouvido nos municípios vizinhos à Capital embora com uma ou outra particularidade. Este falar, considerado às vezes um dialeto ("incompreensível" por muitos), é fruto da união do português dos açorianos e, em menor número, madeirenses que chegaram no Século XVIII com o português já meio "indigenizado" dos vicentistas e santistas, paulistas que já habitavam a Ilha de Santa Catarina, onde se situa a capital. Indígenas, africanos e, quem sabe, até náufragos também contribuíram para a sua formação. Visto que Florianópolis (antiga Nossa Senhora do Desterro) era uma cidade portuária algumas expressões de outras regiões do país foram adotadas com o tempo também. O manezês não é um falar uniforme e possui variações de acordo com a comunidade e a geração do falante. As principais características desse falar são:
-rapidez ao pronunciar as palavras, tornando difícil a compreensão das mesmas pelos não-manezinhos ou mesmo pelos nativos mais "urbanizados";
-pronúncia chiante do "s" (como o "x" em xarope) antes de c, p, qu, t e no fim das palavras (nesse caso ele até desaparece). "As festas" seria pronunciado "ashféshtash" ou só "ashféshta". O "s" antes de d, m e n é pronunciado como se fosse "j": mesma = mêjma. Percebe-se também em alguns falantes a transformação do "s" final num curioso assovio: dois = dôff!
- o "d" e o "t" são pronunciados realmente como "d" e "t" (como em espanhol). Dia é dito "dia" e não "djia" e tia não é pronunciado "tchia" e sim "tia";
- o "r" inicial e antes de consoante se aproxima mais do "h" inglês: perto = péhtu. A pronúncia arranhando a garganta também é comum: "pérrtu". Os mais idosos ainda pronunciam o "r" como em português lusitano, vibrado, atrás da língua. No final da palavra ele não é pronunciado."[wikipedia]
"Além da paisagem, você logo perceberá o quão especial é o sotaque local, um "novo e brasileiro" português de Portugal! "
http://www.sorriso.com/sorrisofresh/mochilao/florianopolis.asp
"ashféshtash".... hehehe.... are they from Lisbon? Can you guess any other place in the world where people speak like that? Brazil!!!
guest
(yeah. All Romance people say TU (You) including Southern Brazil, while the rest of Brazil says "você" and never "TU")
Yes but Eu Portuguese has both 'tu' and 'você' and can use a third person format.
Nomaly who uses a third person format dosn't use 'você'.
In other words you use 'você ' with your boss or elder and 'tu' with your friends or people of similar status and age.
e.g
Quando é que tu vais para casa?(informal)
Quand é que você vai para casa?(formal)
Quando é que vai para casa?(formal)
If I am not mistaken French has a similar arrangement with 'tu' and 'vous'.
From what I have read and heard until now I think that Portuguese especially its Brazilian form is the easiest language for spanish speaker. Portuguese speakers are also on average more familiar with Spanish than Italian speakers do. However, unclear and fast pronunciation of Portuguese can destroy much of this high level of intellligibility on behalf of Italian. I also guess that an average Portuguese speaker speaks different way with another portuguese speaker and with Spanish speaker when he often tries to make his language more spanish sounding and therefore makes some kind of "portunhol". Of course, that´s all rather my assumption. Strictly speaking the closest language to Spanish is probably Galician (gallego) which seems basically to be spanish-like pronunciated portuguese. Then it is portuguese (rather Brazilian and especially south Brazilian one) and then Catalan or/and Italian. Then it would be probably south French Occitan (sometimes called also Provençal which is one of its dialects). However, nowadays this language is mostly replaced by standard French, which is a real teaser for speakers of other Romance languages, at least in its spoken form.
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