American Literature vs British Literature

mdj, I must thank you for not deleting my links, I hope Uriel will get to see them. And I knew someone would mention "generalism." I find a lot of reasoning in your comments, but I also believe that people should be taught certain lessons or topics that they seem to be unfamiliar with (in this case Uriel).

It will be crual for anyone to give the impression that whatever country they live in is equivalent to bliss. As much as I love Canada, I'm always willing to tell people the truth about certain "vices" they might be uncomfortable or unfamiliar with.

You can go back to Uriel's post, then you'll get a good knowledge of my argument, she seems to have come to a conclusion that I really do not know much about American prejudice. Someone raised a point that it was natural for you to find several unique accents in the several sections of the American geography - due to the fact that there were significant historical settlements (of immigrants) in those regions.

The same person concluded that it would make a lot of sense if Americans acknowledged the fact that their country was formed as a result of an amalgamation of the different cultures that made up the vast settlement (old America).

My point was just to bring an arguable truth that that knowledge seems to have been forgotten - thats the part someone said I seem to know very little about America (that was Uriel), and I do not have the right to speak on the issue. With a general overtone that America is not a society that struggles with prejudice.

There is no comparison with countries like Italy and Greece that are rife with prejudice and monoculturalism.

I never said a word about prejudice, Stan. You seem to be making your arguments about comments I never made, and then acting as though you are refuting me. Which is amusing. It is also called a strawman argument.

>><< Also, considering that something like 99.9% of Americans are either immigrants or descendants of immigrants, I think the definition of what makes someone American is a little more broad. >>

That doesn't seem to mean much these days, I wish everyone will be that conscious of their history, but sadly that is not the case. As soon as they begin to fly that American flag, the rest of the world is forgotten and every newcomer becomes a darned immigrant.<<

You clearly misunderstand the nature of such matters in the US, which is most definitely not a matter of just native-born Americans versus new immigrants. In many northern areas of the US, for instance, the real situation is of a very heavily entrenched de facto segregation, where not only is much of the black population far poorer than the European population and wealthier portions of the small Asian population and like, but furthermore is socially completely separate from it. While there is the occasional wealthier black individual who is integrated into the European population, they are in the minority, and furthermore are generally almost as isolated from much of the rest of the black population as most white individuals.

While many new immigrants may be poorer than the established European middle and upper classes here, they are for the most part generally not subject to this segregation, with the primary exceptions being immigrants from Latin America, which is far more of a factor in southern parts of the US than most of the northern US outside of New York City. While Arabs and Indians are also discriminated against at times as well, they are still not subject to the segregation which the vast majority of the black population in the US is subject to, and are generally more economically mobile than them.

>>The situation is worse over here in Canada, it has become a taboo to remind everyone that they are decendants of immigrants. To them, the immigrant is always the newcomer with an accent, forgetting that their grand parents once walked in the same shoes.<<

Such is unlike here in Wisconsin, where the European population here is self-consciously descended from immigrants and is not homogenized ethnically, to the point that people do not use hyphenated terms in such cases, but rather simply call people "German", "Irish", "Polish", "Norwegian", and like. However, there is less ethnic consciousness today than in my grandparents' generation, where many people actually were often bilingual in English and some other language, most often German. Such has mostly died out today, but the occasional church does still hold mass in Polish, and I have seen individuals reading Polish-language local community newspapers.

I agree with Uriel that her comment to you was not about prejudice. Even your comment, which she was replying to, was not even about racism. You were admonishing people for supposedly forgetting their heritage and becoming just "American".

Personally, I agree to the extent that many people here do celebrate their various ethnic backgrounds. Of course, there are people that don't, but I think you have stated it so that it sounds much more widespread than it is in reality. Of course we're all Americans - but we are all rich in our different cultural heritages.

On racism - you know, we Americans are not blind. I don't recall any of us every denying that racism existed in America. Of course, America is far from alone. Racism exists everywhere. It is a human condition, not something that can be applied to any one nation.

"After all, James Joyce is probably the most important 20th c. English-language writer and wasn't he Irish? "

He was still British.

Next time my relatives are munching down that kale soup at the Feast of the Holy Ghost festival while the MC announces that parade in Portuguese, I'll let 'em know that according to Stan, they were supposed to stop that nonsense three generations ago....

"On racism - you know, we Americans are not blind. I don't recall any of us every denying that racism existed in America. Of course, America is far from alone. Racism exists everywhere. It is a human condition, not something that can be applied to any one nation."

I don't know about America, but in many countries racism is often confused with simple patriotism.

"After all, James Joyce is probably the most important 20th c. English-language writer and wasn't he Irish? "

He was still British."

No one is stupid enough to start arguing this point with you mAdam. He was born in Ireland and therefore he was Irish. End of story.

"He was born in Ireland and therefore he was Irish. End of story. "

I was born in England - but I'm still British. What's that got to do with it?

James Joyce was born in 1882 - ALL of Ireland was a part of Britain until 1922, so he was British for the first 40 years of his life.

"James Joyce was born in 1882 - ALL of Ireland was a part of Britain until 1922, so he was British for the first 40 years of his life."


James Joyce was British in the same way someone from Iraq is an American. Ireland was invaded and never wanted to be British. That title was used by the the English in order to subjectate the Irish. Just because I choose to call you a bastard doesn't mean you were born out of wedlock. Your titles mean nothing to us since you have no right to claim any other country especially not ours.

Damn awful spelling and also no insult meant to Adam. I should do a bit more proof reading.

subjectate=subjugate

<< I don't know about America, but in many countries racism is often confused with simple patriotism. >>

Actually...I think "simple patriotism" has become a euphemism for racism. Remember the race riots in Australia - "Aussie pride!!" and after 9/11 - I love America!!, "F-'em Arabs"

<< Next time my relatives are munching down that kale soup at the Feast of the Holy Ghost festival while the MC announces that parade in Portuguese, I'll let 'em know that according to Stan, they were supposed to stop that nonsense three generations ago.... >>

I can assure you that the celebration was more about the food than the culture, even if no one told you that. I can imagine how sad the mood would be if they ran out of beer. (forgive me if that sounds offensive).

You can assure me of what, Stan? Your ignorance? The Feast of the Holy Ghost is a religious festival.