what is the most undesirable accent in britain ????
the undesirable accent
Dear Elina,
desirability is relative and highly subjective. In my opinion, there is no such thing as the most undesirable (or rather the less desirable) accent, but some people do think that there is.
This whole undesirability stuff is based on the supposition that there is only one standard variety of British English (this is called RP (Received Pronunciation), BBC English, Standard English, Queen's English - OK, they are not exactly the same, but the one and only standard variety is usually associated with these terms) which is THE educated and THE correct way of speaking English. It is usually regarded as the most neutral variety of English (of course, it is not neutral for the Brits at all, as it sounds posh or old fashioned - I mean RP, not Standard English), (and/or General American) taught in language schools to foriegners, and it is the most intelligible of the British dialects to non-native speakers. Despite the fact that, as some say, the glory of Received Pronunciation is fading away, this variety of English is still considered to be the only way of speaking correctly by many people, by native and non-native speakers.
On the one hand, RP really should be the variety to teach to foreign learners, because it is the easiest to learn and to understand. And what is the most important thing: no stigma is attached to it (well, at least in theory...) On the other hand it is really sad that such a variety is considered to be the most standard and desirable (as you say) that is hardly ever spoken by anyone in Britain. To be more precise, RP doesn't really exist in its clear form. There are many people who speak fairly standard English (NOT RP) with touches of a regional dialect.
I wouldn't say there are undesirable accents, but, unfortunately, there are stigmatised ones. As far as I know, Cockney, Geordie and Scouse are the most heavily stigmatised dialects in Britain, for these are mainly working-class accents. Please, experts, correct me if I am talking (in this case writing:)) nonsense...
I hope that it helps you.
Best regards Liz
desirability is relative and highly subjective. In my opinion, there is no such thing as the most undesirable (or rather the less desirable) accent, but some people do think that there is.
This whole undesirability stuff is based on the supposition that there is only one standard variety of British English (this is called RP (Received Pronunciation), BBC English, Standard English, Queen's English - OK, they are not exactly the same, but the one and only standard variety is usually associated with these terms) which is THE educated and THE correct way of speaking English. It is usually regarded as the most neutral variety of English (of course, it is not neutral for the Brits at all, as it sounds posh or old fashioned - I mean RP, not Standard English), (and/or General American) taught in language schools to foriegners, and it is the most intelligible of the British dialects to non-native speakers. Despite the fact that, as some say, the glory of Received Pronunciation is fading away, this variety of English is still considered to be the only way of speaking correctly by many people, by native and non-native speakers.
On the one hand, RP really should be the variety to teach to foreign learners, because it is the easiest to learn and to understand. And what is the most important thing: no stigma is attached to it (well, at least in theory...) On the other hand it is really sad that such a variety is considered to be the most standard and desirable (as you say) that is hardly ever spoken by anyone in Britain. To be more precise, RP doesn't really exist in its clear form. There are many people who speak fairly standard English (NOT RP) with touches of a regional dialect.
I wouldn't say there are undesirable accents, but, unfortunately, there are stigmatised ones. As far as I know, Cockney, Geordie and Scouse are the most heavily stigmatised dialects in Britain, for these are mainly working-class accents. Please, experts, correct me if I am talking (in this case writing:)) nonsense...
I hope that it helps you.
Best regards Liz
"The Welsh accent"
Why do you think it is less desirable than all the others? What's your problem with it?
Why do you think it is less desirable than all the others? What's your problem with it?
Poor Elina! She's gonna have a hard time of deciding which one is the least desirable:) LOL
Adam so invites rude comments...it just cannae be helped. OK...here is something you other guys should know.....
Scene: Frankfort, Germany.
This week........start of the 2006 World Cup
Action: Two ENGLISH guys posing as gen football supporters. They were sporting blatant Nazi emblems on their costumes...swastikas or whatever it was that was extremly provocative and illegal under German law in that it was a public display of Nazi symbols, purposefully to cause offence.
Whereabouts in ENGLAND did these two toerags come from? .......
................BOLTON Lancashire.
The German police kicked their arses out of Germany and sent them back to Bolton.
Sassenach Adam is blatantly insulting to the people of Wales. His Bolton neighbours are similarly insulting to the Germans.
Conclusion: Idiots breed in Bolton, England.
Scene: Frankfort, Germany.
This week........start of the 2006 World Cup
Action: Two ENGLISH guys posing as gen football supporters. They were sporting blatant Nazi emblems on their costumes...swastikas or whatever it was that was extremly provocative and illegal under German law in that it was a public display of Nazi symbols, purposefully to cause offence.
Whereabouts in ENGLAND did these two toerags come from? .......
................BOLTON Lancashire.
The German police kicked their arses out of Germany and sent them back to Bolton.
Sassenach Adam is blatantly insulting to the people of Wales. His Bolton neighbours are similarly insulting to the Germans.
Conclusion: Idiots breed in Bolton, England.
>>The Welsh accent.<<
Hey Adam go sodomise yourself! There isn't anything undesirable about our Welsh accent! It's better than whatever accent you have because no accent could cover up the shit that you spurt.
Hey Adam go sodomise yourself! There isn't anything undesirable about our Welsh accent! It's better than whatever accent you have because no accent could cover up the shit that you spurt.
Last night I watched part of the "Hornblower" series starring Ioan Gruffudd. In the behind-the-scenes extras, he speaks in his native Welsh accent, which I find charming. (I suppose it helps that it's Ioan Gruffudd speaking it.) Catherine Zeta-Jones sounds good, too. I don't know how strong these actors' accents are considered to be in the UK, but I like them.
IOAN GRUFFUDD (pronounced phonetically as "YAW-ann GR(u)FF-(u)TH" - with the (u) sound equating exactly to the French "u" as in "tu" or "mur", and the "TH" sound exactly as the English "th" in words such as "with" or "thou". In Welsh the R is clearly sounded always, and never glided over as in English. A lot of Welsh people roll the "r" in much the same way as we Scots. In speaking Welsh the mouth and tongue and vocal chords have to work much harder than many English people (especially in the South of England) do when speaking Southern English English. At school our French teacher (who actually was French) said that only the English can speak a Language with hardly any mouth movement at all, which we, as Scots, found funny.
Ioan Gruffudd is a fluent Welsh speaker, and made his acting debut in the Welsh Language TV soap "Pobol y Cwm", which means "The People of the Valley". He was born at Llwydcoed in the Aberdare Valley of South Wales, but moved to Cardiff (capital city of Wales) with his family when he was about two years old, and he got into acting because his grandparents ran an amateur dramatics society in Cardiff. He later went to drama school and the rest is history, professionally, with "Hornblower" etc. He now lives in Los Angeles, and says he does not miss Wales or London, but even so he apparently still has his very distinct Welsh accent.
Catherine Zeta Jones was born in Swansea, South Wales, and also has (or rather had) a strong Welsh accent, which later became modulated when she took up acting professionally and became well known when she played the daughter in the TV series "The Darling Buds of May, based on the book by H E Bates, a story about an unconventional family living in rural Kent, in South East England. By then she had lost much of the strong Welsh intonations in her voice. Now that she is married to Michael Douglas, has starred in lots of films and musicals, and all that jazz, and lives in Los Angeles (assuming that) she no longer sounds as if she has stepped right out of a Welsh valley any more. Her accent apparently is now about one third Wales, one third RP English England and one third California. I can't find any reference to her ability to speaking Welsh or not...no idea. She and Michael Douglas have a mansion in the South Wales Valleys so maybe she uses that base to keep herself in touch with the lilting, sing song accent of her homeland.
Ioan Gruffudd is a fluent Welsh speaker, and made his acting debut in the Welsh Language TV soap "Pobol y Cwm", which means "The People of the Valley". He was born at Llwydcoed in the Aberdare Valley of South Wales, but moved to Cardiff (capital city of Wales) with his family when he was about two years old, and he got into acting because his grandparents ran an amateur dramatics society in Cardiff. He later went to drama school and the rest is history, professionally, with "Hornblower" etc. He now lives in Los Angeles, and says he does not miss Wales or London, but even so he apparently still has his very distinct Welsh accent.
Catherine Zeta Jones was born in Swansea, South Wales, and also has (or rather had) a strong Welsh accent, which later became modulated when she took up acting professionally and became well known when she played the daughter in the TV series "The Darling Buds of May, based on the book by H E Bates, a story about an unconventional family living in rural Kent, in South East England. By then she had lost much of the strong Welsh intonations in her voice. Now that she is married to Michael Douglas, has starred in lots of films and musicals, and all that jazz, and lives in Los Angeles (assuming that) she no longer sounds as if she has stepped right out of a Welsh valley any more. Her accent apparently is now about one third Wales, one third RP English England and one third California. I can't find any reference to her ability to speaking Welsh or not...no idea. She and Michael Douglas have a mansion in the South Wales Valleys so maybe she uses that base to keep herself in touch with the lilting, sing song accent of her homeland.
>> English "th" in words such as "with" or "thou". <<
Over here "with" is normally pronounce [wiT], and thou is [DaU].
Over here "with" is normally pronounce [wiT], and thou is [DaU].
I saw Catherine Z-J on a talk show, and while she was talking about being from Wales, she upped the Welshness of her accent quite a bit.
<<and the "TH" sound exactly as the English "th" in words such as "with" or "thou". >>
Which "TH" sound do you mean? As Chris pointed out, "with" is commonly [wIT] (so the "th" in "think") in North American English while "thou" is [DaU] (so, the one in "that"). I guess I would assume the Welsh orthography, using voiced <DD>, would imply [D] but you can never be sure.
Which "TH" sound do you mean? As Chris pointed out, "with" is commonly [wIT] (so the "th" in "think") in North American English while "thou" is [DaU] (so, the one in "that"). I guess I would assume the Welsh orthography, using voiced <DD>, would imply [D] but you can never be sure.
OK I will try and simplify what I was told by my good mate in Wales, Andrew.....a Welsh guy with a Scottish name :-)
The Welsh DD sound is more or less the same sound as the "th" in the definite article "the" as far as MOST English speakers are concerned. I realise that a fair few English speakers may not pronounce it this way - eg the Irish when they say "wit" or "wid" for "with".
One thing is for sure, the Welsh DD is never pronounced as a normal D. A single D yes, but not a double DD. So when the Welsh pronounce the place name "Dolwyddelan" the two sounds are very different. The nearest English equivalent as far as I can tell is the "th" sound in the very commonly used "the" for standard English speakers.
Reading my earlier post I think I may well have confused the issue a wee bit.
***IOAN GRUFFUDD (pronounced phonetically as "YAW-ann GR(u)FF-(u)TH" - with the (u) sound equating exactly to the French "u" as in "tu" or "mur", and the "TH" sound exactly as the English "th" in words such as "with" or "thou"***
Maybe I should have said: <........and the DD sound in Gruffudd sounds exactly the same as the English "th" in such words as "the" or "they" or "these" etc.">
I hope this isn't still as clear as the poverbial mud. Welsh is quite an interesting Language with sounds and word/letter formations and use of elision which does not occur in any other of the UK Languages, which is why it just seems to be impossibly difficult for people from outside Wales, especially the English......who are not the World's best linguists by any stretch of the imagination. One look at a Welsh placename and the English get so delightfully tongue tied, either genuinely....or by design, or both.
*TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO*TRINDAD AND TOBAGO*TRINDAD AND TOBAGO*
Come on Jason Scotland....do us Scots proud! :-)
The Welsh DD sound is more or less the same sound as the "th" in the definite article "the" as far as MOST English speakers are concerned. I realise that a fair few English speakers may not pronounce it this way - eg the Irish when they say "wit" or "wid" for "with".
One thing is for sure, the Welsh DD is never pronounced as a normal D. A single D yes, but not a double DD. So when the Welsh pronounce the place name "Dolwyddelan" the two sounds are very different. The nearest English equivalent as far as I can tell is the "th" sound in the very commonly used "the" for standard English speakers.
Reading my earlier post I think I may well have confused the issue a wee bit.
***IOAN GRUFFUDD (pronounced phonetically as "YAW-ann GR(u)FF-(u)TH" - with the (u) sound equating exactly to the French "u" as in "tu" or "mur", and the "TH" sound exactly as the English "th" in words such as "with" or "thou"***
Maybe I should have said: <........and the DD sound in Gruffudd sounds exactly the same as the English "th" in such words as "the" or "they" or "these" etc.">
I hope this isn't still as clear as the poverbial mud. Welsh is quite an interesting Language with sounds and word/letter formations and use of elision which does not occur in any other of the UK Languages, which is why it just seems to be impossibly difficult for people from outside Wales, especially the English......who are not the World's best linguists by any stretch of the imagination. One look at a Welsh placename and the English get so delightfully tongue tied, either genuinely....or by design, or both.
*TRINIDAD AND TOBAGO*TRINDAD AND TOBAGO*TRINDAD AND TOBAGO*
Come on Jason Scotland....do us Scots proud! :-)