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Cap and Cab (Are A's in these words read differently?)
I read somewhere (an English phonology book written by a Japanese scholar) that one should read A in cab longer than A in cap. I don't have this impression, though I've read the same thing before.
What do you think? Cab and Cap Do you read As in these words differently in terms of duration? Do you read them like this? Caaaab Cap Thanks.
I guess there is a tiny difference in vowel length on those two words, but it's a very meaningless distinction, and can probably be ignored.
I agree with american nic. My vowels tend to be a tiny bit longer before voiced consonants, but it's barely noticeable, and meaningless (non-phonemic).
Same with american nic and Lazar. "cab" has an ever-so-slightly longer version of [{] than "cap" does, but at least in my speech the difference isn't huge, while still noticeable if you listen for it.
In my case, "cab" (/k{b/ -> [k_h{:b]) likewise has a longer (but not *that* much longer) vowel than that in "cap" (/k{p/ -> [k_h{p]), in the dialect here. Likewise as well, the length distinction here is purely allophonic in nature, as both words share the same vowel phoneme in the dialect here.
One note though is that in the dialect here, allophonic vowel length differences are considerable enough that what are informally written as "hadta" (/"h{dt@/ -> ["h{:.t_h:@]) and "needta" (/"nidt@/ -> ["ni:.t_h:@]) do not sound right if the first vowel in them is pronounced as being short, and that "latter" (/"l{t@`/ -> ["5{.4@`]) and "ladder" (/"l{d@`/ -> ["5{:.4@`]) cannot be considered to be homophones, even though there are no differences in vowel or consonant quality between the two. Even though vowel length differences may not be *that* large in these cases, all things considered, they still cannot be considered to be negligible either.
I would argue that this probably exists to some degree in a lot of languages--for instance, in Spanish the first "a" in "barrio" is definitely slightly longer than the first "a" in "bate."
In Scotland the vowel sound in both words are roughly the same but we draw them out a wee bit longer than do the English...especially in Northern England. "C-aah-b" and "c-aah-p" rather than the short sharp "A".
To my ears some people in Southern England seem to make the vowel sound almost an "E" ..keb and kep in contrast to their compatriots in the North! LOL
I agree with Nick and others who say the difference isn't significant. I believe it is a waste of time for Japanese people if they are trying to learn the differences explicitly.
When I show people the words cap and cab independently (written on different cards) they read the As in the same way. If I show the words written on the same paper, then they read them slightly differently (caaab verus cap). I show the words together with other words on the same page, they read the two in the same ways. But these happen when people feel like they are being tested. I wonder how they say cap and cab in a natural speech.
Differences in vowel length are not phonemic in English; that is, you can pronounce vowels as long or as short as you wish, in any position, and you'll still be understood.
However, some native speakers have a tendency to pronounce certain vowels long, and others short. It has no importance from the standpoint of comprehension, but if you don't pronounce the lengths as natives do, you'll sound "foreign." This tendency seems to be more marked in British pronunciations than in American pronunciations. The same remarks can be made for non-phonemic diphthongs (only three diphthongs are phonemic in English, those in "toy," "bye," and "now").
>>Differences in vowel length are not phonemic in English; that is, you can pronounce vowels as long or as short as you wish, in any position, and you'll still be understood.<<
Well, yes, from a basic standpoint. However, vowel length differences may preserve distinctions that have been lost with respect to vowel and consonant quality, usually due to neutralization or assimilation. Examples of such are "latter" and "ladder", in some dialects without any Canadian Raising, full or partial, "writer" and "rider", and in some dialects without a distinction between [n] and [4~], "winner" and "winter". In my own dialect, though, only one of these cases actually applies, as partial Canadian Raising preserves the distinction between "writer" and "rider" in actual vowel quality, and my dialect has a distinction in realization between [n] and [4~], resulting in "winner" and "winter" having a subtle difference in consonant quality in actual realization. I couldn't think of any words, though, that differ solely in /nt/ versus /nd/ intervocalically and not before a stressed vowel, as those would be a cases where solely vowel length would be distinctive even in the dialect here, as both said /nt/ and said /nd/ would be realized as [4~]. In the end, though, these distinctions based purely on vowel length are rather marginal, and are probably of not that much consequence to beginning non-native learners of English, but they still must be kept in consideration nonetheless.
From discussion here, I understand that the difference in length really is marginal. But if marginal why do people still continue to do so?
Also it seems like Cab IS pronounced longer than Cap sometimes, but not all the time. Here are three sound files of my American friend. I asked them to read this: I hit and I hid it. I hid it and I hit it. I left my cap in the cab. I took a cab and lost a cap. http://www.estat.us/kaz/eigo/david.wav http://www.estat.us/kaz/eigo/bill.wav http://www.estat.us/kaz/eigo/marc.wav HIT and HID are almost identical. Sometimes CAB is longer than CAP, but not all the time. I am trying to figure out why these things occur in partly random and partly systematic way.
The vowels for me take the same amount of time, but I spit out the p in "cap" much more quickly than the b in "cab". So "cab" ends up taking longer for me to say, but it's not because of the a.
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